(Game Theory) Why Women Beta Their Sons, or, Why A Generation of Men Raised by Women Are Betas

My mom flips shit any time I try to step up or change. Slaps logic in the face any time I try to talk about it rationally. Yet she's frightened at the thought of me not being a capable husband/father.

I've obviously grown past being affected by it but it really fucked me up as a teen. My dad was passive at best.

Alex's latest video (from my hometown, woo!) talks about empathizing for young hotties cause it's like 17 year old guy not having a father figure or leader. Mother fucker that's how I was and it sucked! After a shitty period after plowing through it and figuring stuff out on your own... It's powerful shit.

Moms prob also subconsciously stifle the boys because saying things like "that's the way life is..." rationalizes their chode husbands who are at least not raising their son as alpha.

watch how 'stifled' this guy is around his mum

hahaha! 

That's pretty awesome.

I have a slightly different take on this- well kind of. 

For starters- I actually agree with this post. I was raised almost exclusively by my mom and sister and it was only later in my life (around my senior year in hs) that I found a male "father-figure" who I've become very close with. 

I think one of the first things that needs to be added to this post, or at least discussed, is what does it mean to be "alpha". Different people have different definitions, so I'd be curious to hear what other people's thoughts are on the definition of the words "Alpha" and "Beta'. 

I start out by asking that, because, personally, I'm very externally "Alpha"- in the sense that if we're out at a party, or in a group situation, I tend to be the focus of everyone else's attention and the source of whatever is happening. I am a strong leader, in both certain and uncertain situations, I'm very quick to make decisions and confidently direct others towards my conclusion. It's a rare situation where I'm stifled or put "into my head" and I'm pretty authentic in my expression. 

I think that being raised by very dominant feminine figures opened me up to my emotions much more than one might be if they were raised by the "typical" masculine-figure in todays society. This emotional astuteness also happens to be what constitutes a good "leader"- in the sense that, leadership is almost entirely an "emotional" activity. What i mean by this, is that you will never get people to follow you, trust you or believe in you, through logic- you must be able to hit on the emotional level of what's going on. 

So- all that being said, I think that there are some very clear downsides to lacking a masculine, father-figure, for such a substantial period of time. 

With the emotional astuteness also comes the tendency for my emotions to go a little "over the top" and basically bubble over and clowd my judgment. I start thinking and feeling like a chick (go figure). 

One of the aspects of my "replacement" dad is an emotionally calm, firmness to the way he talks, reprimands and supports me. It's very similar to what Manwhore talks about. It's also, part of what is lacking when you're raised by women- you don't have that calm, collected, firm father telling you that you fucked up. Instead, it's always so emotional, it's so "intense" all the time, so that's the story that gets engrained- that's the way the wires get crossed. 

Finally, is the matter of self-control. Manwhore hit on this in his OP but I think it's accurate- moms are afraid of anything bad happening to you. It's why my mom is poor as shit but, if I were fucked up and wanted to manipulate her- would be willing to give me the last penny to her name, if I asked for it. (Just for the record, I don't take a fucking dime from my mom for anything) but that's a choice that I had to make... I literally had to consciously break out of the habitual "ease" of having her willing to do anything for me. It was a choice. A very very conscious choice. 

Along these lines- Having a male figure would have helped me develop self control. Something that I'm basically just learning about now. 

So, the main thing I've noticed is the difference, emotionally, of being raised by solely a woman vs. solely a man- all of the above points, really, the way I see it, seem to just boil down to emotions.

Final Couple Points: 

1. All of the above being said- I think that both a feminine and masculine force are needed in a child's upbringing. If you're a mature individual, either man or woman, you're probably closer to that dividing line and so the downsides are negated but it's great to have both forces. 

2. No matter what happens. Whether you're raised by just a mom or just a dad or hell, maybe you're raised by neither... No matter what, at the end of the day, the choice is entirely yours. That's one of the most incredible aspects of living a full life. We constantly, on a daily basis, have the opportunity to choose. We have the opportunity to grow, learn and become slightly different, slightly more authentic and compassionate both towards others and ourselves, everyday. Meditate. Become mindful of your emotions and thoughts and you will be able to break whatever the cycle is. 

I had a very similar upbringing to Buddha's, with similar results, except my mother is an example of what one of my students coined, a "Tiger Mom". Lol 

My parents gave me pretty much everything I wanted growing up, I nearly died 3 times, maybe that's why. it certainly didn't help me cultivate a strong work ethic. My mum is super nice, but too nice. She will do anything, terrible at controlling her emotions too, she was massively bullied at school growing up. She's strong, but brittle. My dad works 12 -14 hour days, 6  days a week and was a drop out at the age of 14.

He's completely not there emotionally. For example the other day I tried to speak to him on an emotional level and he just chuckled at the thought of what I was trying to say.

He suported me a lot as a kid when I was playing sports and always made sure I had the kit, and training I needed. Can't help but think cuz i failed him there it devastated our relationship somehow. He suffers from OCD, Anxiety and Paranoia, IMO. Which is understandable because he's been hustling as a Salesman for decades, working a job he hates deep down and has enourmous finanical pressure on himself. 

Both parents are super liberal, they smoke weed infront of me etc.

My older brother, has some anger issues and as a result growing up would be super nice, but then all of a sudden, for no logical reason, other than him not being in control. He would abuse me and my mum, both physcially and verbally. My gawd, the fights. We both have battle scars, literally. 

The result of all this left me to figure shit out for myself. Did this impact my life negatively? possibly. Will I use it as an excuse to not fulfill myself? HELLNO . I'm the master of my destiny.

Living proof here. I think if it wasn't for porn I'd be gay.

That's a strong claim homey. Explain 

Fatherless child. Been raised by his mom's side, all of them women. Perhaps that's why all that Beta-ness is still ingrained on me. I don't even remember anything from that time. I was 3-5 years old. In my teens, I had a stepfather who beat me up.

And the porn reference... I used to doubt about my sexuality. I'm still a virgin. But I realized I'm not gay 'cause I like porn.

Ahh. What kind of life experiences have you had with girls where you were interacting with them? 

Obviously aside from the obvious bishes in your family. 

lol wtf have you done to these men manwhore?

i have demons too...

i think the 'do-it-yourself' ethos took a LONG time for me to understand because my mum literally did everything for me up until 18, when i finally started making choices in my life, i.e pickup.

fuck...i didn't even realize all my potential until this last year, and i guess i was being s/mothered too fucking long, and relied on her for everything just because i felt incompetent and was conditioned this way.

as a result, i suck at EVERYTHING. Anything i begin i always struggle with - i don't just fail, i fail hard with my teeth buried in the mud and people laughing at me. I'm slow but fucking intelligent at the same time - i'm more on point than most people. I am a walking paradox sometimes, but the more i've came into acceptance with my drawbacks, the more i push the pain barrier and become stronger.

my mum and older brother were the only constants in my life for a very long time...they are both highly sensitive individuals; have problems handling their tempers and my bro in specific is quick to criticize if you don't do things his way...shit, this paralyzed me with inaction for so long and is probably a contributing factor in my hesistant nature. it's why i can sometimes be passive in the face of confrontation because on some deep level i'm reacting to all the intensity of my childhood.

i just want to chill...and this mindset devastated my results with women and relationships with men meant i became less of a man amongst the boys at High school. Jeezus, the last two years have been a complete rewiring of all these bad habits, and the emotional strain...jeezus, the emotional strain is crazy for your brain to process. By 'changing' i've been admired, respected, hated, demeaned, bullied, and all of what you can imagine. and guess what - things are JUST GETTING STARTED.

Shy all the time. Never got a kiss from anybody. Once when I had a crush with a girl, I called her constantly. One day I called her like 6 times, and she never answered. Later she'd tell me to leave things like that. Became a Facebook stalker. I wouldn't hit on a girl if there was people around. I'd wait until she was alone. I got hit at college by 2 girls but, being me, didn't take any action. I didn't like one of them. Never asked girls for a phone number. Also I've been isolated at college. There was a girl I was going out with. She started sending me indirect messages that she liked me. I ignored those. Later, she would text me stuff regarding sex toys and sexual jokes (memes), and I still ignored her. I don't want anything with her (I lost attraction) but (I think) she sent me a text to catch my attention like a week ago (I still ignored her). Now I'm going out with a girl. There's some attraction in there, but we don't see each other often, although we text each other (This is my best experience so far). And there is a cute girl at work. She was looking great with all that make up, but I couldn't tell her because I get afraid of messing up with my current date. Like, if this coworker ends up feeling something, I'd feel like an ass with my current girl.

deleted, too much personal info

you have an amazing attittude.  congrats on the progress so far

do you have guy friends?  [this isn't about teh ghey, but more about your social interactions in general]

Caring is sharing. It just goes to show that you can't create diamonds without incredible pressure. We are all diamonds baby.

@gogo - don't be too concerned about being hypercritical, paradoxical. You will have dissonance as you grow, and out grow certain parts of yourself to becoming your vision you see of yourself.

Here's a quote I found that resonated with me to do with the topic:

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes" - Walt Whitman

I gotta admit I omitted a part in here. Sorry about that. In high school I was always in groups of up to 3 or 4 guys. In college, I only had friends from my class. Outside school, I didn't see anyone. After a while I made a few friends after class. Now I don't see them mostly because of work. There was one friend I used to hang out with a lot but I felt he was sort of passive-aggressive in some cases, and I ended up getting away from him. But at work I did have friends. We played tennis every weekend after work. After college, I moved to the university appartments, just for a semester, where I'd become very isolated. However, I was someone very humorous and girls liked that. I would hangout with girls from my floor but I stopped. (Most of people in my floor were girls). All of them younger than I. But not guys. I tried to make more friends but I felt somewhat rejected. Some other girls were a bit weird too. At the U, I had few friends from the class but never to hang out with. Almost at the end of the semester, I met a very cool guy off class.

@MW I forgot to add this to the list of my experiences with women: I'd never hit on girls with boyfriends.

So you're still a virgin and do you know why?

I got my ass handed to me all throughout my childhood th emotional warfare by my mother and my sister working as a team. I think I have some ethos in the matter. I've also been taking a sociology class the past semester (very useful). Females develop in elementary school a vocabulary to their very calculated social circles that boils down to "she's nice" or "she's mean" to explain their choices of friends. Boys have a very different vocabulary, focusing on dirty words and rebellious acts. Although there arises dissonance, women feel attracted to the fearless, confident boys. Guys who speak female language either turn beta or make great gay best friends. 

So when I grew up I adopted my female family members' vocab and joined in on their venting about how mean my alpha dad was. No need to explain where it went from there. Some mother's have no idea what harm they are causing their boys.

as mw would put it - "it's just puffs of air. Don't let it get to you". Literally 96% of what leaves a woman's mouth is irrelevant noise. But really it is.

Ask yourself do you want to be the gay best friend or the "frustrating" attractive badass. If they agree with you too much something os wrong

^ Really cool insight. 

I'll get back to the rest of you guys later. 

My parents are polar opposites, at this point in my life it is actually great because it's making me extremely insightful. This has really helped me form MY OWN OPINIONS, because I always experience both ends of the spectrum.

My mom is the best. She gives no fucks. She has never conditioned me to follow social norms simply because she doesn't even understand them herself. She's a sweethearted and flamboyant. She has always let me learn my own lessons, in fact she wants me to make mistakes. This is awesome because she encourages me to experience new things good or bad. It's not that she doesn't care, she is extremely helpful and nurturing, she just doesn't like to drill me with "do's" and "dont's". If she doesn't agree with something i've done she will simply share her opinion without actually deeming it the "truth", she lets me figure out how I feel on the issue. I recently discussed MW coaching with her, any typical mom would probably argue that it's not "normal" for a highschooler. My mom didn't find it weird at all, she said it sounded interesting, If I wanted to do it and had the money ...go for it.  She never has felt the need to control me, never checks my grades, never grounds me, never tracks my phone. She gives me respect and I don't take advantage of it. I've maintained at 3.5 GPA throughout highschool so far, most kids with similar grades are there because of the pressure their parents put on them, those grades are all me. I admire all her traits, and feel like they are very "alpha" in nature. She guides me, but doesn't give me a definite path. She is a very alpha mom, not a loud/powerful/intimidating woman. I take concious effort to be more like her.

My dad on the other hand is your classical misconcieved alpha male at home, a macho man that is secretely emotionally unstable. As it goes for bussiness he is ambitious, direct, grounded, and social- a true alpha male. I don't think he conciously understands that he posses some great traits when he is not operating on a personal level.  I have defintely recognized this in myself. When it comes to raising me, he has forced a negative attitude on me since I was in my early teens.To start, he doesn't know how to give me recognition. I feel as if I've achieved lots in the last few years, and he is proud, he just doesn't know how to tell me on a personal level. He will brag to his buddies about me, but it will never be a compliment to me personally. He is emotionally unstable, when he falls into a bad mood he becomes a huge douchebag to everyone around him. I think being mean almost makes him feel better. He doesn't undertstand that his emotions have an influence on others. He doesn't know how to be a grounded supportive figure, when shit hits the fan he's the one freaking out. He just isn't good at making connections with people, probably because his parents were so fucked up and distant towards him. Being my father, he has had a greater influence on me than my mother because he's a dude. I feel like he is the reason why I struggle to make great intimate connections. His attitude has improved over the years which is great.

overall my family life is good, I try to keep my younger brother free of the oppossing forcing coming from mom and dad because at times it fucks me up.

Really cool Meow 

My negative upbringing was a result of multiple factors other than my mom betaing me, but that was definitely a big one.

My mom sent me to a really strict catholic school (which has it's own type of social conditioning built in) and pretty much wouldn't allow me to do anything with chicks because I wasn't allowed to go out or do anything that wasn't PG rated. She caught me jerking off a couple times and got REALLY mad at me. She told me I was going to go to jail for watching porn and all kinds of bogusness. I kept doing it anyways because I knew better, but my point stands.

As far as encouraging beta behavior goes. My mom kind of teased me for liking girls from a young age, which I resented. And when I was in either 1st grade or Kindergarten and I told my mom I liked some girl she would buy me chocolate to put in the girls backpack with a note from me. I never really thought much of this though, so thank god THAT type of beta behavior never stuck. In 3rd grade I just straight up told some chick I liked her, but social conditioning had kind of sunk in by then so I walked away shy and embarrassed.

Honestly though, the worst part wasn't the encouraging of beta behavior. I was smart enough to know that that shit didn't work, but I also didn't know what the right way to act was. So instead of helping me to be more alpha, she actually rationalized alpha behavior for me and taught me that any strong masculine/alpha figure was basically a massive asshole and I was too young to discearn (social conditioning and all) between what was actually proper alpha behavior and just manboy type behavior. She also taught me that I was never allowed to fuck up in school or my life would be ruined so this caused me massive amounts of social anxiety related to my school work, which lead to all kinds of other problems.. But that has nothing to do with being beta'd.

As far as my dad goes, I can't remember him teaching me much of anything. My parents are still married and live together, but I've pretty much been raised by my mom. My dad used to only talk to me to say bye before I went to school/ask how my day went when I got home or on special occassions if he thought I was fucking up he would just come yell at me.

I think I might have been much better off if my parents hadn't taught me anything at all and just supported me while I went to school. The only thing they might have taught me was to have a strong work ethic, but I think I learned that from Michael Jordan who was a role model of mine from a very young age.

^

I find the whole catholic religion to be a shitty upbringing, no offense to any of you guys out there that are strict catholics (which I highly doubt). 

Which reminds me of another thing I forgot to bring up about my parents. No religious upbringing at all, not in an athiest sense, my mother has always told me that all you need is a personal relationship with god. No need for church, scripted prayer, confession...

I feel like mothers are so excited for the social status of "my son is married" so I, as the mother, did everything correctly. If you know women you know that social status is extremely important. So they teach their sons, as manwhore said, to be a potential mate for all women. Unaware that the son needs to be an alpha and stand for something to achieve true happiness and effectiveness. When you stand for something you are controversial. A mother would hate to see her son be controversial. In my opinion, it is the true leader, the true being who's energy field radiates to everyone around him who is the true MAN, and he will be controversial because he stands out from the crowd.

So true batehs.

Most mums want sameness from their sons, and don't want to see him hurt. They shove him into the 'safe' box, but don't give him opportunity to grow much into his own man.

My mum resents the men who have wronged her in her life, so i guess this is what made me so nice to girls originally. I wouldn't know how to hold a conversation with them in high school - all the rambunctiousness of my childhood was sapped out of me, and most of the time i would be 'killing' time, which is an awful outlook on life.

That's why it's so hard to overcome your shyness of girls - begin talking, and then realize the logical next step is to start playing with their emotions. Which is VERY try hard when you first start out, then you realize you MUST get physical. This got me a weird reputation as being too touchy feely in college...and then you finally understand the power of compliments - stop trying to impress girls, and you wait for them to gain your approval. Nowadays if a girl meets some of my criteria my face lights up like a kid on christmas day.

Mum's, schools and TV's never teach this. Your mum might tell you you're special and to be yourself, but this feels like generic advice even though it is true to a certain extent.

This thread is amazing.  I'll add mine in.

My father is a huge pussy.  He lives his life reacting to the world around him from a place of fear.  He was raised by a domineering mother, a father who wasn't around much--because he was making money, and has three younger sisters.  He used to get in trouble for reading too much, never played sports, and didn't have cable tv until a year ago when he got it for free because the company fucked up.  He married his first girlfriend who would become my mother.  While they were dating, as everyone was sitting at the dining room table eating dinner my grandmother and my dad's sisters would tell him about other girls and make it clear that they liked those girls better than my mom--in front of my mom!  He got into an Ivy league college but went to a lesser school to be close to my mom.  I almost repeated this exact pattern.  Thank God for abortions!

When I'm at home visiting all I do is hear him bitch about his job and how much he needs a vacation.  He still reads tons sci-fi/fantasy books.  He's always been tight with money and has a high paying job so I thought he was set.  Last time home he tells me he's been irresponsible with money and will have to work until he's 75.  I love him as my father because he did everything that he thought was right in raising me--he tried to be the father that his father wasn't.  He doesn't drink.  He tried to teach me classic american values of hard work, saving your money, seeking value in education.  He is a conservative christian and when we were growing up he used religion as a disciplinary tool.  Once I got to the age when "because I said so" didn't make sense to me, then it would be "because the bible says so."  I literally don't know anyone else who follows all of the rules like he does.  Over time I've learned that all of his behaviors--following the rules, being tight with money, the sci-fi, the religion, clinging to my mother, trouble making decisions, staying at a job he hates--come from fear.  I love him very much but can no longer say that I respect him. 

My mother lives in a state of perpetual adolescence.  She's a permo little retardo but whatever looks and charm she may have had are long gone.  She's not too bright and gets along really well with children.  She saw a perfect slave in my father and dug her claws in deep and never let go.  The only things she's good at are sewing and raising children.  But I don't blame her for anything.  She has always reacted to the world around her the only way she knows how. 

She's slowly fattening and being uglified by time.  Her attitude sucks more year after year.  I think if we gave her grandchildren she would be happy again, but neither me nor my brothers are willing to take that risk yet.  She kisses my ass all the time now.  I used to beg them for money and now she offers it to me.  She goes out of her way to buy the food I want when I'm home.  She always wants hugs and wants to talk to me.  My dad is too deep in his little world to see what's going on.  I treat her like I would a silly child.  I don't argue with her.  He doesn't get it.  I tell her that I go for younger girls and she feigns indignation but I can tell secretly she enjoys it.  I slapped her on the ass in the kitchen the last time I was home--should have seen her reaction. 

So, I'm not saying all of this to disparage her.  She's slowly dying from the burden of leading and making decisions.  She has been forced to take on the role of the man and she hates it; she bears seething resentment towards my father because of this.  He can't see it.  I used to think that she was just a huge whiny bitch, but now I know that she's scared and wants the security of being lead by a powerful man.  Not my father.  This is all his responsibility, but he'll go to his deathbed before he sees what's wrong.

Yeah I slap my mom on the ass all the time haha

LOL wtf just happened

My dad was such a dick I think my mom has gone lesbo at 60. She's planning a trip to Vermont with an old friend who happens to be recently divorced....hmmmm idk

What part of Vermont they going to be in batehs? 

The broke back part lol

My head has conflicts between love and sex, right or wrong and stuff like that.

Will you elaborate on this thinking please?  Just write out whatever is on your mind about what you wrote below, and then try to organize it so we can understand. 

my guess is that om_bucker feels that you need to love someone to have sex with them, and that sex with someone you don't love discredits the whole thing.

amirite bro?

That's correct.