Convince me this is not a scam

Ok this site and the training program are over a decade old. Not sure what you're referring to as shoddy but the look of the site and its functionality is heads above plenty of other scientists and such that run their own sites that aren't impressive AT ALL.

The site's certainly looked better before I'll give you that much, lol.

But anyway.. here's some neuroscience for you:

The Neural Mechanics of Autism

I'm not sure if you're a troll or not yet, but try to show a little respect when you show up on someone's site/home. Especially this one, as with a little casual investigation it becomes obvious this is a long-standing site and program. You can browse dozens and dozens of reviews and accounts from people who've taken the program. If you're serious, and not a troll, feel free to peruse the training testimonials.

You have to understand there's a lot of programs out there that promise similiar miracles that really are scams. Scams with their own fake reviews, fake testimonials and usually a very shoddy looking website. I want to take part in a good course that works but damn it, I'm afraid I'm just gonna get used.

Usually I can tell a scam right away, but with this I'm on the fence. The testimonials seem too good to be true at times, just like some of the "pickup stories" I had read. The website does not fill me with confidence either. But on the other hand I've seen your videos and you always look and act so authentic... Unlike most other gurus who look like they are playing a role. You talk about the importance of mindsets and inner game while others talk about weird tricks that could never possibly work. I want to believe. But if this is a scam and I fall for it I know I will never forgive myself

You might have a difficult time believing this but there was once a time where the pickup/seduction community was EXTREMELY genuine and credible. And we were acutely aware of when a fraudster tried to enter the mix. We could spot fake bullshit pretty instantaneously. We ran incredibly tight programs, zero drinking, zero time wasted, etc. All that went the way of the caveman around 2012 or so unfortunately. We had some super talented guys enter the scene that just would not give up certain vices, lol. Then a few reports came out of pretty well known coaches paying actresses for "infield footage". Then all of a sudden people realized women would actually pan for the camera if they knew they were being filmed. And then all of a sudden amateurs started calling themselves "dating coaches" who had zero credibility, zero time in the game, zero experience running live programs. But they had camera equipment and some website building skills.

This is why the top coaches usually always stayed super underground. To really be true to the craft and pursue the skill set, things like flash and camera work can't be part of the scenario.

By the way which reviews seem to good to be true? I'm always secretly pleased and amused by such claims ;)

https://manwhore.org/forum/content/testimonial-infield-coaching-man-balls

This is one of the reviews I think are just really hard to believe. The ammount of success this guy has had from the very first day of coaching seems astounding. Too good almost. Reads like some kind of sex-fantasy. Especially for a guy like me who has always been severely struggling with women

Anyway, tell me something about the course. How much for in-person training and what kind of results can be reasonably expected for a guy like me. I'm 24, fit and somewhat muscular (gaining muscle is another area of my life I've been forever struggling with). I'm told I'm quite good looking though that almost never seems to translate into anything.

Well certainly not all live training programs are created equal. I've run many with absolutely amazing results, larger than life experiences, major sexy times, people and venues shut down in their tracks, etc. Most programs end up being very solid experiences. And then I've run a few where it seemed the student couldn't get anything done. There's been very few of these however. One in particular I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on at first, every interaction started out fine then just turned dismal within minutes. Upon further investigation it was revealed the student would almost immediately begin inserting pre-programmed bullshit that undercut every single one of his interactions. It was essentially the same thing every time. And I'd tell him to stop and he'd do it again.

I had one student attempt to start WW III with a woman and her friends while I was standing right there next to him staring starry-eyed into the face of one of their girlfriends. Her and I are practically falling in love until I slowly become aware the fact a fucking war is starting right next to us. I look over and shit is about to pop off. We actually had to leave the area there was nothing I could do about that one lol. And the next night he actually got punched across the face by a chick. Some women can just be shitheads but I actually had to tell him straight up he deserved it. He took the manosphere/red pill/julien drama stuff way too seriously was way too confrontational with women. But he ended up losing his virginity on the last night of program to a very sweet cute girl so all's well that ends well I guess lol.

The program mentioned earlier in the thread was definitely quite stellar. The guy was gregarious, had taken super well to the drills-based training in fact did a decent job of even showing me up a couple times. He could also be counted on to make his own moves during the course of the night or day without having to be babysat. I was able to take off more than once with a girl for sexy times and then come back and he'd still be in set. His main issue was just applying himself correctly and escalating logistics and physicality. In fact at first he had a hard time believing me when I'd come back from heading off with a girl.

Some guys have actually gotten super resentful when I leave with a girl to my car or wherever. Like.. visibly pouty. In fact I can say very easily that most problems on program can be attributed to the attitudes the student brings with them. Otherwise we will most certainly pull, have long successful and fun interactions with women, etc. That being said I'm not there to put on a circus, if a guy can't pull his own weight on program I'm not going to put on a one-man show.

Which goes into my main point.. you currently don't qualify for live training. You have to go through the drills-based training program first so you can be trained adequately to be able to conduct yourself effectively during live training. The typical idea of pickup "bootcamp" where a guy shows up without prior training is ludicrous. It's old technology. You need to be run through verbal drills-based training to actually get yourself to a place where you can handle yourself in conversation with women, escalate effectively, lead logistics, etc. There is nothing out there like this training program it is quite literally the best seduction training in the world. It's very intensive, very effective cognitive-behavioral training. In fact most guys experience so much success they don't even request live training.

That being said I run one of the best live programs in the industry. It's definitely among the best in the world, and there are certain elements that totally set it apart from anything else out there. So after the drills-based training if you still want to do live training the option is then available to you.

Whats up man.

I took the training a few years back, & now I'm going through another month with him to fix a few areas of my game. The training program is the real deal.

But honestly, most of these stickies are gonna answer your questions..but if you have more questions/ want my personal take on it, I'll be glad to help out & answer.

Get on it lol. 100% worth the money. Plus it feels like Jon is back on his purpose.

I don't think you can handle it though. If you're rather trusting your own rationalizations about how you might be fucked instead of your inner resonating with the content.
This shit is intuitive. You won't get there being over-analyzing.

I'm a bit sceptical when it comes to training through Skype. A fitness coach wouldn't do that so why would a pickup coach? How will you know if maybe I'm slouching or staring like that guy did? Wouldn't it be better to just release the drills as a book?

But, I'm not going to be telling you how to do your job. As long as I see that the training is heading somewhere, we will be fine. I'm sure.

Again I have to ask how much is it gonna cost. I have to set aside the necessary funds, I'm not rich or anything. The way I understand payments will be on a per-session basis.

One last thing, I don't think it's the right moment for me to start meeting women. I'm currently working abroad and neither the working nor living conditions favor pickup. For one I work ~60 hours a week and the job is physically exhausting, I don't think I have any energy left for cold approaching. In 3-4 months when I return and the virus situation hopefully dies down a little I might give your course a shot. But until then, do I need to apply ahead of time or should I apply when I'm ready?

I hope you had an amazing easter

The program isn't cookie cutter and is tailored to each person, so adding the drills to a book wouldn't make any sense.

BTW if you aren't ready to do the program then just wait til your logistically setup properly and are ready to dedicate yourself to doing whatever mw has you do.

Also, on the topic of excuses; I initially did the first training sessions in a tiny little bathroom with 0 privacy, and had to take an hour on a train to go out at night to do what I needed to do to be successful & what was asked of me. (And this was after a long work day of constantly getting treated like a peasant) Point being, if you want it, you'll find a way.

Until then though, you could always stick around on the forum and post about any issues you are having and I'm sure you can start atleast getting pointed in the right direction.

Thanks, but I'm not even attempting dating/pickup rn. As I said this is just not the right time and place. I honestly don't think it would be feasible in the current circumstance.

For a username like "optymistyk" you sure aren't ;) - Kidding bro. I just wrote a testimonial which I think would be useful for you since it seems like you got cold feet. Check it out here: https://manwhore.org/forum/content/updated-skype-coaching-review-5-years...

I was younger than you when I took the training program and it paid off dividends. You want to get your dating life handled early on and set yourself up for greatness when you got your youth. Are you located in the U.S? Also, happy to answer any questions on here for you.

Hi, thanks for the input.

I'm currently working abroad in the Netherlands, but in a few months I'll be comming back to Poland. However I'd be open to travelling all the way to the US to get some in-person training if it really is that good.

I began trying to fix my dating/sex life at like 20. I've read a fkton of self-help/pickup books, e-books, articles; watched a lot of videos. I became just a little bit obsessed. I would go out all the time and try applying all the different principles I had learned. Unfortunately, despite putting a lot of effort and exposing myself to a lot of rejection, the situation didn't improve much at all. At 22 I had a breakdown and gave up dating/pickup completely for 2 years. Recently I've been thinking about giving it another go.

If at any point I seemed a bit mean that's because I felt let down by all other pickup advice and I was angry at myself for even thinking about giving this course a try. I felt like I was repeating a mistake by even comming here. Time will tell if I was right about that.

I'd still like to know how much the Skype training costs

It’s all good bro. I believe there’s a small community of guys that Manwhore has trained that live across Europe. This isn’t exclusive to the states by any means.

From other alums, I’ve heard in-person training is the tits. I can’t speak on that because I’ve never done it honestly. I took the Skype training and it took me to another level so you definitely don’t need the bootcamp but it certainly has its place and value. I’m still taking a bootcamp one of these days just cause I want to get even better.

That aside, your story is sadly a very common one in the pickup community. The industry is very good at keeping you in it without you getting the real scoop as to how to execute the skill set. It’s a lot of esoteric terms on “life” lol. How are you going to execute being non-needy? How do you be dominant? How do you do xyz, whatever it is. The reality is, if you taught what it actually took to guys, they wouldn’t be around much longer. They’d be self-actualized adults ready to tackle the world and those men aren’t good customers ;)

As far as cost, just email Manwhore or direct message him as he knows. Or submit a training request and get the scoop. This program isn’t an article, book, or course. It’s direct consulting and teaching with a veteran in the game.