Do you guys think forming emotional bonds with women is good? Or bad. Does it take away from sex in any way?

Honestly I don't really care that much about it. I mean if we connect on that level it's cool and awesome, but if we don't I'm cool and awesome as well.

I don't see how a emotional bond would take away from sex, to me it only adds to it like it can make sex more intense and enjoyable in some ways.

Also after the excitement of the first sexual encounters with the girl I might get bored with her, but if we connect on a real level I don't. It makes me want to spend more time with her than the usual.

A lot of guys will get lost in it, seemingly friendzone themselves. OR it's got a tendency to delay sex because a lot of guys can't take things sexual once they go this direction with a girl. 

Ohhh i can't wait to give my input when i get off work! 

brb.

Honestly I've almost always friend zoned and choded myself out once it goes in this direction with a girl. So much so that part of my "game" is not letting myself go in this direction with a girl.

Would love more feedback on this...

I think the emotions are great if they are not the basis of the gaming process. All the girls that I am into the most never seem to work out as well. I used to think this was just the way it was, but it totally doesn't need to be that way. From my experience it has taken away from anything sexual just because I wasn't "on" my game.

I think it's fucking awful lol. For my goals at least. It makes me feel bad about sleeping with other chicks when I start to like one specific girl. Going to have to dump my gf at some point. Shit isn't good for me. I like being alone and with a harem of girls to choose from. I don't know why or how this came about but learning game definitely solidified this feeling for me.

I've done a good amount of inner work last couple months (alchemy) and with that I have started to get more real w myself about myself, insecurities, desires etc. And out of doing that I've dropped a lot of insecurities, which leads to me being more open with people about whatever shit I had going on if it's something that's on my mind or I'm curious about, I started having convos with girls telling them I had all these insecurities and what my life has been like. Not game just because I felt like it, self expression. I slept w one woman first day, another one new girl at work she pretty much said she wanted to sleep with me when I dropped her off that same day we met (she didn't have a sitter for her kid) and had a girl who had decided she was lesbian go from not so interested in meeting up to constantly hitting me up afterwards. I think it's powerful but if you're still emotionally charged and open yourself up the girl will feel turned off and uncomfortable. But if you've done the work and are uncharged they like it because they get to connect past their own bullshit masks/pretenses they carry around to protect themselves. It's interesting I'm seeing now how important connection is for women and how impossible it is with most guys because they either avoid being that real with themselves/women or they're still emotionally charged when they talk about it and women get turned off by them because they're not at peace with the issues or themselves.

^ So what's the nature of the intimacy or vibes you're building? 

Classic what were the circumstances that led to it? You also probably realize that was a product of a completely different time in you life. 

Just a question based off of Closing's post there.

Does it matter what you're saying when you're trying to express those emotions you're feeling? Or can you be so emotionally charged and in the moment that your energy is often enough?

I was thinking about this a lot the other day. I was listening to this couple argue at the bar and it was so emotionally driven. I was under the impression that it was more important to be calm and icy at all times. Where as when you start arguing emotionally, you often give up your state/frame. Arguing calmly would be something I would probably prefer to do. 

Then again, when is it okay to display a wide range of emotions or is it best not to display the emotions as a man but instead try to get the girl you're interacting with to feel them herself?

A few questions that have been bouncing around in my head after reading through this thread.

No, it's just that most people don't truly know how to communicate. And no offense Grappler but you wouldn't be there yet either. Words and emotions can and should be intertwined. 

In short I guess the intimacy was authentic conversation about what goes on behind the social mask we put on without emotional charge behind it so I could speak about it candidly and use my comfort in that area to open her up and make her feel safe to be herself wherever she's at.

[I wrote that paragraph at the end, then realized it should be at the start since its much more succinct. The rest is more detailed, thought it might be a valuable breakdown for anyone interested in more in depth explanation.]

It's hard to say any one particular thing. It was more like a system of things, many things building up a bigger picture, a way of being which then trickled down into specific conversations. I feel like I could have had those same convos but from a different mental space and with a different intention and I wouldn't have enjoyed it and would have given off a diff vibe. I think the key for me was clearing out the underlying emotional charge to my insecurities which naturally shifted my perspective and way of being. With a shifted perspective I naturally go through a whole other set of responses and effortlessly guide the interactions in a new direction.

Few things such impacted interactions which come to mind which were distinct from before.

Perception/belief.

I used to have a model of masculinity which was insecurity= vulnerability= weakness= bad game= I'm not good enough= unacceptable= must rationalize or distract myself from it= build up a layer of game to compensate =cover up insecurity with game =constant unease/lack of security and conviction

This led me to a model of masculinity that was self centered and in hindsight not fully matured or fulfilling vs a more nurturing type of masculinity that has greater emotional acuity with the woman. When I'm willing to see it in me all of sudden I can see it much more clearly in others. It's very interesting how much I was blinded to with old model of masculinity, the emotions I was unwilling to see in me I couldn't recognize those nuances in women either.

Old model was replaced by insecurity= emotional charge= sign I'm blinded by ego= opportunity to perceive new reality= more grounded and authentic sense of self if I give the emotional charge love and acceptance...therefore pain is sign pointing towards access to transformation and self-awareness

I told women about how before I had this idea of masculinity that was basically being in denial about my pain and insecurities, which later I realized was insecurity masquerading as confident. An immature shaky confidence. That being real and seeing my insecurities and loving/accepting it started giving me real confidence and peace of mind.

I talked about what I saw in them, what I enjoyed in them. If I saw pain, or doubt or subtle facial expressions in response to something in the interaction I would often call it out if I felt like it because I genuinely wanted to know them on a deeper level.

I told one girl I could see she put on a hard exterior but that it was a defense mechanism because she was very sensitive underneath and didn't want to be hurt. Her ego kicked in, she started justifying, explaining, etc and I just soothed her and reassured her it was okay to experience those things, I wasn't there to judge her and she turned around really quickly and was more real with herself.

One girl told me something she said she had only told 4 (5?) Other people in 15 years and didn't know why she was telling me and this was first day we talked (had talked day before for about 30 secs).

It was really cool, like when I dropped off the new girl from work, it felt like we were having pillow talk almost or something. I had this distinct feeling like sex was just a natural like thing we were both pulled towards because of the intimacy and I could see it in her, she basically told me she had it in her mind to have sex with me already. Emotional state is moment by moment, I'm curious how she'll be next time I see her since there was no escalation and we went so deep so quick. Suspect, particularly with her, that she might snap back or her ego/fear might kick in, we'll see in taking it on as an exploration guided by my curiosity and sincere desire.

I'm also starting to get the sense a lot of shit tests are coping mechanisms for women who are feeling insecure about their attractiveness/self-worth and not in control emotionally so they try to regain that by making the guys feel insecure or out of control. When you "pass them" (aka you don't lose your sense of self worth/control) they're attracted because you have something they want but don't have. When the charge is not cleared, the ego's hunger for external validation, to control uncomfortable feelings is never satiated. Obv unconscious behavior patterns. And I don't think its all black and white, I think there's also still the element of testing for honest signals too interlaced in it.

[nvm]

Put that back! It was very good. 

Be proud of your shit, Shikorah. It's your perspective and it's a good one. Let it out 

lol. it's just my head was spinning on too much caffine and general flu-yness, so couldn't really understand what i'd written and I wasn't sure if i had articulated myself correctly or was blindly talking out of my ass.

Well put it back I wanted to comment on it. 

Ah okay, is this something you sort of "get" over time and repetition? Or could this be something you need to dive into to fully understand. For example, it must be taught?

Going to look into this a bit more, because I don't understand it fully. 

This is pretty much my thoughts on the matter. After the first sexual encounter if shes down hookup thats one thing although I might be bored of it, but if I have to go on a date/hangout beforehand I feel like Im acting to get to the end goal. Not kewl or enjoyable.

But I never really think of it as 'forming emotional bonds.' In times past, I've tried to force an emotional connection because they were hot and/or I was in desperation but shit gets weird that way. I think that happens naturally if your communicating authentically and there are some chemistry/pheromones in play

No. It does not take away from sex. The way this question is going to be addressed is dependent on the underlying assumptions that are at work.

Timeline of sex, fear of being vulnerable with your partner, fear of attachment, doubts of being an emotional leader.

Listen, if you have all this shit handled or at least on top of it, how the fuck can your RAS even be focused on it taking away from sex.

Congratulations you like to get your dick wet. Sex, has never been for me the pinnacle of experience. Tyler used the beer analogy of the head of the beer being the "peak experience," and speaking from the framework- shit, I'm all for flow experiences. Transient hypfrontality- it's beautiful. But listen, it ain't sustainable. And you always ain't gonna get good head on your beer. But at least have the beer lol.

What it comes down to, is what do you want. And what does this person do for you. If you have a goofy ass girl, who's wild, alpha on her own, but super submissive but you also meet a girl who's more edgy, spiritual, empathetic, and more kinesthetically aware- don't try to project on each other ie don't just try to have sex to have sex, to show you can have sex. If anything that shows lack of entitlement and lack of self-trust. 

I'm speaking from personal experience when I've swung from the either side of the pendulum. At the end of the day you're still living up to someone else's standards.

Decide for your own-obviously there has to be a baseline of social competency, emotional fluency, and physical dominance- take the training lol. 

It's a sweet motherfucking zone. Your fucking frame matters. So even if you are forming an emotional bond, it's leading to sex. Hotness.

Awesome way of putting it

Shikorah had a really good response and the bish took it down 'cuz she's got no balls apparently. 

Nice. So yeah it'll be different for each woman, you'll create/establish unique emotional feelin's, special wavelengths, personal storylines with each other. You'll take her uniquely , your pillow talk and sexting will be unique. But if all of these aren't leading to closer physical and sexual intimacy there's some sort of dysfunction going on, whether it's a lack of experience or a socially-conditioned misunderstanding. 

Classic this is why I asked you to flesh that out. It'll be clear once you do. This is what I wanted to flesh out. I actually assumed Shikorah and Toomanycooks would be my champs on this one lol. Jack.Ruby if he was still around.. 

hmmm, the points i rememeber:

- sex is a channel for emotion. real sex is emotion.

- in sex, you have the potential devour her body, mind, "soul". why hold back?

- an emotional connect adds another dimension to the sex

hold on while this old woman tries to remember more things.

where the fuck are my words?! i have a strong opinion in this. 

wait, wait... here we go..

if you're fucking a woman, she's completely opened up and vulnerable to you. of course it's emotional. an emotional connection is part of attraction and bonding. i've never experience having feelings for a girl take away from the experience - it only enchances it. It's linked with passion. more of you and more of her is participating in the sex. it's a great gift for both of you. i've had women tell me that i've "seen their soul" while we still had a mostly sexual relationship. i'm the first person that a number of women have experienced full surrender with - is an insane amount of intimacy. women love intimate sex. the more she can open up and trust you, the better. Sex has the capacity to communicate a lot of things in a very raw, primal and pure way. just grabbing and fucking her like a wild animal is still powerfully intimate.

bonerz