Feedback, Diagnose sticking point
Would like some feedback to dianose what the next missing piece is to take things to the next level. I feel like I'm so close. I think part of it is lack of clear intentionality, wasted time on sets without clear goal. I could have spent more time in sets that were screened for logistics to fuck. (I live too far from city).
Went out tonight, completely sober. 3 rooms in venue: Club, Lounge, Bar. I was solid the whole night. No fear, no thoughts, just present. Literally pretty much every set opened up really well. TL;DR I opened walking set within 7 seconds of introducing myself to one of the friends, the girl is qualifying herself telling me she's good friends with the birthday girl because they've had a threesome together. Open a 9 intense eye contact, grabs my scarf, try to make out with her within 30 seconds of talking to her, she's holding onto my hand the whole time. I broke it down in more detail at end of post in case it has important clues as to what I need to do next.
The set I committed most to.
Sitting at table with guy friend and mutual friend's female friends. My guy friend tells me hey go talk to those girls, they look like trouble. They're really cute. Go right in.
Me: Hey my friend back their says you guys look like trouble. God you guys are fucking cute too. What's your name? And your name?
They loved it. Friend came in, they were laughing. They're telling us they're in love with us because we're so much fun. My girl starts showing me her Vine (she looks like the girlfriend in PrankvsPrank youtube channel), I start showing her pictures on phone. We talk for a long time. Ask her where she lives, I find out she's 15 minutes from my house. We talk more and part ways.
Run into my girl again, she's alone at the bar. Her mascara is all smudged, she lost her phone. I talk to her, get her a water. Tell her I have a secret and kiss her neck. She's, holding her hand. She tells me she doesn't like holding hands. I think I might have fucked it up by trying to future project, I've heard this can be really good for grounding it and making the follow up more solid if you can't pull (which I wasn't expecing her friends were all driving there shit logistics). I think this set up the frame that I was boyfriend material? I asked her if she was single, threw in the needing a getaway driver etc. Just wanted to basically screen her to not waste time. She shows me her tattoo, one really high up her her tits, I made sure to pull up her shirt and touch it while I read it. She has this infantile vibe to her though. She has an inner lip tattoo of a crown (cause she's a princess), learned helplessness acting like a child type vibe. Kinda weird but if I made her call me daddy it'd be the kind of fucked up that would probably be really hot. I try to make out with her like 5+ times. I introduce her as my sister to people and try to make out with her a bunch of times too. We take a picture, I bite her face, tell her I'm going to lick her face, she says no, stands there to take the picture anyways and I lick her face. I really wanted to screen this chick cause I wasn't quite sure where she was at. Alex says most girls won't even show interest but will go home with you if you spend enough time and are relaxed and stimulate their emotions. And well I fucked it up last time with girl who showed me the side tattoo who wanted to fuck last weekend. The whole time though she was acting like a child so I wasn't sure it was like sexual. When I would try to kiss her she would be like omg that's bad but in this kid type role. Didn't feel like flirtying more like an act she had or something. Looking back here I should have tested her harder like tell her to look at me in the eyes, silence for a while "Let's just be clear if we hang out I'm going to fuck the shit out of you".
Anyways here's where it got lame. We wait forever, I'm hanging out with her and her friends. The game plan is to walk them to their car to solidify follow up. I ask them how they're getting hom. They say taxi. My girl looks at me very briefly when she says this. Here is another part I maybe fucked it up. I tried to not make it obvious I saw it to not make her feel like a slut. But maybe she was looking for me to give her the "Yes, I'm going to fuck you confirmation". She talks to a bouncer, asks him if she can help her find phone (by letting her back in). My instinct is to go with her just to lock it in further. When she comes back out later she says her friend is giving her a ride (the fucking bouncer). I'm like okay just lead. So I tell her friends, hey you guys cold? You can get warm and have pizza down the street. Start a pizza chant, girls are all for it. The other girl didn't hear it. I walk back to get her, pull her. She tells me she doesn't want pizza I just keep plowing telling her her friends want to. We get to her friends, two fo them are taking a piss in a small in a little next to the street. They're fucking taking forever. By the time they're getting done the bouncer's joining us. He takes them to drop them off and probably drop off a couple loads in the girls haha. I've been reading about Alexander's stuff and I like it because it basically sets the frame that you dont' need to do much which is what I've found. If I just don't think and don't give a fuck I get strong reactions and attraction.
I noticed this girl also give strong IOIs when I was talking to her about a lost phone to a bouncer. Neither this guy or the guy who drove her home impressive looking/being, very plain. Looking back I see that maybe she has a strong response to anything that's authority as it also plays into the adult child frame she likes to take on, should have been more commanding. I also could read girls much better, I could see one group of girls give each other the look when two guys came up to them. I saw them talking together later and it was on, I recognize now it was them giving each other the yeah those guys are our type maybe we can fuck them look. It's cool I feel like I'm picking up so much subtle shit now that was off my radar before. This 4 month involuntary break I feel has improved my game and perception.
Anyways feedback would be fucking great. Thanks guys.
Below are exampels of other interactions. My vibe was definitely on I'm thinking maybe having clear intention and strong leading/commanding to then escalate after the open:
Facing table of girls who are friends with a friend, I look right see girl in a tiara/banner. Start conversation as she's moving, walk with her and her friends, my arm around her should. We walk up to the bar. I tell her her friend is really cute too. Her friend lights up, loves my attention. I ask if they're good friends. The friend I just complimented says yes they're best friends because they had a threesome together trying to get my approval. I say well great it's your birthday maybe you'll have a threesome. I bounced cause they're getting shots, to come back later.
I approach these tall really hot group of 3 girls. Instantly I get the vibe they must work at a high end strip club or something like that. I lock eyes with a girl. I ask the girl her name, stick hand out. She doesn't say shit, then eventually tells me her name is "no name". I don't flinch, just think it's funny I know what she's doing and I have 100% expectancy she'll give me her name because it's the normal thing to do. She smiles, starts to give me her name.
This one we got blown out the second I had the though "Oh my friend's super tense he'll probably blow this set with his energy I should try to manage it"
Go up to a fucking smoking ass 9+. Big round fucking tits, tight fucking ass ommmg. Go right in.
Me: Hey, what's your name (laser fucking eye contact)
Her: (can't make out what she says), she's holding my hand.
Me: What?
Her: (takes my scarf puts it around her neck, intense eye contact). I try for her name several times too fucking loud. I'm super up close to her like maybe 2-3 inches from her face, try to kiss her on the side of the mouth on each side and try to kiss her. She keeps moving her mouth so I can kiss right next to but not her lips. She tells me her friend would like a drink testing me. Her friend is my friend's gf. She's super cool, knows about game, was complimenting me saying it was impressive that I didn't flinch or think I just went right in.Still holding my hand.
Me: (Basically I can tell she's into me and she's testing me. I don't react think it's funny because I'm not buying her shit and I know her friend. After a while I tell her like dude I know the girl it's funny but whatever drop it) haha listen I know her. She's ___ girlfriend.
Her: (It's loud as fuck, she def didn't hear me) Oh she's my girlfriend. Jumps all over her and does the obviously we're not lesbians thing. I laugh look at the girl like dude I know her you can drop the shit but it's too loud and the girl's already flipped into that mindset. I think I can fuck her if I see her socially. Can call her out and laugh about it.
Lol.
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
You're focused way too much on kissing a girl. You also don't understand the "logistics of seduction". You're looking for signals instead of simply leading. You're on the "attraction rhythm" vs. the "compliance rhythm".
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Cool.
Logistics of seduction= Finding out logistics to determine what's possible or what I will need to do to close that night?
Looking for signals=Attraction Rhythm?
Leading=Compliance rhythm?
I think I get what you mean. For example I opened a 3 set walking in opposite direction. I told her she looked fucking hot, like a china doll jet black hair porcelin skin. The whole group opened really well but then after a while the energy seemed to stall out, the spark felt like it faded because I didn't escalate the vibe/interaction somehow and then they were like awesome meeting you but we were on our way to meet our friends. I had the thought that what I should have done was asked where they were going and walked with them.
I can see it actually in the interactions I have, the initial energy is good, I can keep the interaction social but it feels like I'm not escalating the vibe. If I were to start getting them to follow my lead it would make them more comfortable and familiar with following my rhythm and trusting my direction which would make it easier to move her around the club and isolate so by the time I pull she's already got rapport with that and is much more compliant. Thanks man this is exactly what I am seeing is missing.
Also another thing I think is costing me consistency is I see so many hot girls I don't lock one in. I want to fuck all of them lol. I also think how do I know this girl is DTF and not a waste of my time, like I'm picking blindly. How do you screen out the time wasters?
Girl I mentioned who I invested most time with messaged me today. We called her phone from my phone a bunch of times. I'm pretty sure she knows it's me.
Her: Who's this
Me: (5 mins) Your mom
Me: Who's this
Her: (5 mins) Her Name
Her: (1 min) I lost my phone lastnight did u call it cus I saw ur number and my voice on a voicemail
How should I move forward?
Very good. And if you think about it you realize that screening is inherently embedded into the idea of it being a "compliance rhythm". If she doesn't go along with it (or you simply can't get her to, either at that moment or at all), then you move on. Typically you want to be running 3-4 sets at the same time, pinging, and then when one hits that threshold you pull her. Just remember it's not just logistical compliance it's also physicalness.
Cool.Logistics of seduction= Finding out logistics to determine what's possible or what I will need to do to close that night?
Looking for signals=Attraction Rhythm?
Leading=Compliance rhythm?
I think I get what you mean. For example I opened a 3 set walking in opposite direction. I told her she looked fucking hot, like a china doll jet black hair porcelin skin. The whole group opened really well but then after a while the energy seemed to stall out, the spark felt like it faded because I didn't escalate the vibe/interaction somehow and then they were like awesome meeting you but we were on our way to meet our friends. I had the thought that what I should have done was asked where they were going and walked with them.
I can see it actually in the interactions I have, the initial energy is good, I can keep the interaction social but it feels like I'm not escalating the vibe. If I were to start getting them to follow my lead it would make them more comfortable and familiar with following my rhythm and trusting my direction which would make it easier to move her around the club and isolate so by the time I pull she's already got rapport with that and is much more compliant. Thanks man this is exactly what I am seeing is missing.
Also another thing I think is costing me consistency is I see so many hot girls I don't lock one in. I want to fuck all of them lol. I also think how do I know this girl is DTF and not a waste of my time, like I'm picking blindly. How do you screen out the time wasters?
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Just chat her up mang. You need to establish some sort of dialogue, figure out how receptive she is, hint around about today, see if she's down, meet up.
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Her: I lost my phone lastnight did u call it cus I saw ur number and my voice on a voicemail
Me: (1hr 50 mins) Oh. Yeah, you licked my face and told my friends you were my sister. Also your friend peed on my jacket. God can't you guys anywhere..
Her: (5 mins) That was youuu!
Me: (13 mins) Lies, all lies. Ready for snowmagedon part 2 Rainbow Brite?
Her: (5 mins) Hahah the snow? Not liking it
Me: (8 mins) I know. Haven't trained you on the Batmobile yet so postponing the bank robbery pumpkin.
Me: (2 mins) Snow conditions could get dangerous in getaway situations.
Her: (3 mins) Hahah
Her: Where robbing a bank ??!!
Me: (13 mins) Course boo. I'll need to give you a code name to keep you safe though. I'm split between Agen Pumpkin and Rainbow Brite right now tho..
Her: (1 min) Lol how about jst (her name) !
Me: (2 mins) Not menacing enough. Plus (her name) won't get you any street cred
Me: (9 mins) First training: donuts in the snowed in parking lot. I hope you're ready Agent Pumpkin.
Her: (1 min) Il tipp in my jeep
Me: (6 mins) No hablo Chinese Pumpkin
Me: (14 mins) Oh you have a jeep. Great, gonna need you to pick me up but driving in reverse. You got this boo. Just breathe and stay focused.
Where should I lead this now? I feel like I'm at a point where I need to move this in a different direction or it will stale out and be purposeless.
I already answered this dude. Look at the earlier reply. Just move to the next step of that process.
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Cool okay hinted at a meetup. Dunno if she didn't understand it or if she's playing dumb. Not sure how to reply
Me: (7:38 PM)Oh you have a jeep. Great, gonna need you to pick me up but driving in reverse. You got this boo. Just breath and stay focused.
Her: (37 mins) Ahhaah idk bout thiss
Me: (9:34 AM) Just breath Pumpkin, you've got this. We'll need to discuss details too, over coffee and maybe convincing strangers we're related. Details over phone could compromise the whole mission..
Me: (1 min) This message will self destruct in 5 seconds.
Her: (24 mins) Huhhh
Pussy.
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Felt more like a gay till you pointed this out. Damn you're right.
So what I just got was I was coming from attraction rhythm, looking for signals instead of compliance rhythm.
Me: Kidnapping you to discuss the bank heist boo. Today at 8.
Her: (20 mins) I dont wanna be kidnapped
Me: (24 mins) Chill boo this is the kidnapping vehicle (picture of pumpkin cart from Cinderella). Be ready by 8. Need to have you back by midnight the latest tho..
We'll see but yeah this is much better. Screen her out ASAP if not interested. Turn this into social circle if she's not interested cause her friends are all hot.
You can't just force compliance like that you're bashing your head against a wall. She says I dont wanna be kidnapped you have to have enough empathy to work with it, or know to just fuck off for the time being. You're kinda pushing yourself into a corner with these texts
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Yeah wasn't sure how to read the "I don't want to be kidnapped". Did it mean I don't want to meet up, not interested, didn't like the frame or was playing/teasing/testing. I thought she was likely either not that interested or testing.
Her: (16 mins) Cindrelly
Me: (12 mins) Yeah gurl
Me: Address
Me: Bring slippers
Her: (2 mins) Ur funny
Her: Hahhahah
Me: (36 mins) Ur mom's funny
Me: I want you in your best behavior missy.
Me: There will be no licking of the face tonight.
I feel like I should wait a while and send her something to relieve tension so sh'es not thinking it might be awkward to meet up later and scrap it for social circle. It doesn't seem like she's interested particularly when I compare how she's acting with me vs the bouncer. She proactively engaged him and asked him to drive her and her friends home and she had just met him outside. Stark difference in behavior.
What's your opinion? Scrap it for social circle, drop it or try to build it back up in the future?
Yeah just hit her up with something like, "Let me know quick tho babe otherwise I'll get into something else. But it'd be cool to hang out at least for a bit.Then if you're crazy I'll just run off ;)"
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Cool thanks man. I would normally never have gone this far, I have mostly used texting only for logistics in the past. I was pretty sure she wasn't intereseted just liking the attention/emotional stimulation throughout the day. But now it seems like she's interested. Or maybe it was the emotional stimulation that made her more interested. Who knows.
Me: Let me know quick tho babe otherwise I'll get into something else. But it'd be cool to hang out at least for a bit. Then if you're crazy I'll just run off ;)
Her: (8 mins) I don't hang with strangers I jst met! Who lick my face lol
Her: And crazy my middle name
I'm thinking social hangout later on in the week would be best, again her friends are hot too. I think they mentioned they don't go out into the city all that frequently, not sure though. Want to find that out right now though to avoid wasting a week to find out they're not coming out.
My mind's going a few places on how to reply..
"It's coo bebe, ur mom can chaperone, she's got great zingers." (She lives w her parents) And then send her another text being like "I'm going out w my friends later on in the week. You guys can come out w us. Just don't cause trouble with the police again."
Or send her pic from that night of us and a friend of mine where I'm biting her face.
"Lies. I'm a biter not a licker gurl. Dis is how rumors get started." "Going out w some friends this weekend, you guys can join. Tell your friend to try not to pee on my jacket this time tho.."
Or now that her concern is in the open throw a couple of jokes and see if I can get her to agree come out. I'm thinking of cancelling though if she does, more interested in just psychologically leading her to that level of familiarity/rapport where she would be wanting to meet up just to lock the interaction further for future meetup/texting and to also build trust by showing I'm social and okay with delaying meetup till this weekend to make her feel more relaxed around meetup.
Where should I go with this?
"Lies. I'm a biter not a licker gurl. Dis is how rumors get started." "Going out w some friends this weekend, you guys can join. Tell your friend to try not to pee on my jacket this time tho.."
That's actually pretty close, not bad. "Lies. If I'm a licker than you're a biter. Dis is how rumors get started."
"And who's a stranger? Not me. I swear if you call me that again I'm telling your mom to spit in yo food!"
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
No response back yet. Later today if I don't hear back I'm thinking...
"Gawwsh mum's Italian cooking such a touchy subject, jeesh." "Going out with some friends this weekened pumpkin. If you bring your friends we could assemble the whole bank heist team in a night."
Only thing about this is it leaves a gap. Her friends might not be going out, I don't think I'd find that out till the weekend and it'd be closing off communication till a week and rapport for meeting up hasn't shifted much. Maybe throw in a 3rd text
"Obv I'd be George Clooney bc of my handsome. Gawd just look at dat face tho.." and include the picture of me biting her face. I could see that continuing the conversation but also feels a bit too much sending 3 messages and last one having a picture, feels a like it could come across a bit like entertainer mode.
What do you think?
Ignore, you're chasing at this point. Hit her up in a few days with something casual. You can't be trying to chase the meetup with this chick you're just lowering your value.
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Cool. I'm loving it man, I feel like my brain is getting rewired to a higher level of callibration. I was going to ask you why that vs making a joke about it first but in writing it out it started clicking as to why you probably say that (joke shows too much energy investment. If instead you send a casual playful message it shows you don't care and are playful without investing all that extra energy)
"Hope you've been staying out of trouble pumpkinbutt. What are you up to this weekend"
How's that? Feels like something's missing though with the second part, like too much right away.
It's completely focused on her. Makes you sound like a needy faggot. Stop asking questions and starting having something to actually share, even if it's just a thought.
I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student
- Autismus Terminus Finis (Root Cause/Cure of Autism Epidemic)
- Called Off My Wedding & Other Turn Tail Signs Of The American Male
Me: Omg I don't know how you get anything done, these cat Vines are so addicting. How's ur day boo (reference to in person convo. I qualified her and her friends on having a great sense of humor, their Vines were fuckin hilarious.)
Me: (2 mins) And these Asian animal Vines. So random but so hard to stop watching.
Her: (1 min) U have vine ?
Her: What's ur name againn (Not answering my question, testing me by implying I didn't make a strong enough impression to remember my name but being cute by spelling 'again' with an extra n)
Me: (6 mins) I'm a man who goes by many names (avoiding the question, and so moving the conversation at my own rhythm)
Her: (1 min) Oo
Me: (26 mins) But yeah my name is Papi. Traditional Latin name. (answering at my own pace/terms, don't give her a serious answer to a question that was a test)
Her: (1 min) Dad?
Me: I think you're moving too quickly here to be calling me daddy. Gawd I knew I shouldn't have gotten this new haircut today..
Her: Huhh (playing dumb, not playing along with frame, testing)
Me: (2 mins) So damn handsome. (again not reacting to her playing dumb, semi non-sequitur, self-amused, moving at my own pace)
Me: What are you doing today boo (cutting the thread, leading conversation)
Her: Babysitting
Me: (2hrs 13 mins) Take them clubbing. I hear kids get in for free if they bring a chaperone.
Me: Think of all the funny Vines that could come of this
Her: (4 mins) Nahhh
Her: She's 2 and 5
Me: (10 mins) Can I borrow them then. I want to blow up my Vine channel.
Me: I won't let the 2 year old have any drinks.
Me: (2 mins) I promise
I realized my mind had been tricking me. I was thinking "I'm new at texting, I don't really know shit, I've just generally used it for logistics". I realized this was basically not trusting my ability to read the situation and act accordingly. It was also fear of fucking up.
I had a similar experience with opening sets at night time. I had to know what to say, what was gonna happen, there was a lot of hesitation from fear of fucking up. Then I realized to open well I just have to jump in without having anything to say and that it's really about trusting my faculties to just come up with something to say and respond appropriately after the opener. When I realized this it made me much more decisive and removed the hesitation I had in opening before. Ironically enough when girls can feel you didn't think at all, just jumped in and acted without hesitation they're much more receptive because of that.
I'm seeing that texting is like opening. You calibrate after the opener/text. Like the last couple threads I started (after she said babysitting) I was already getting bored and I think I it would have been best to just not have said anything till another day when I hit her up again. I sent a couple of texts after anyways to prevent her from thinking "oh when he knows I can't hang out he doesn't have any interest in the conversation"
I'm also getting bored with this girl. She much more entertaining in person.