Greed in capitalism vs socialism
This is why I am so pro capitalism.. Ayn rand style. In no other society do the masses have a chance at escaping bottom. And even I that weren't the case, the more freedom the better for what it does to the male psyche.
If every Rsd kid listened to a Milton Friedman video for every ten Tyler videos...
There are more current economists for sure but Friedman died as the man who never lost a debate. He has a way for boiling things down to principles so he is timeless in a way.
Yes his points are exactly right on point. What we were discussing earlier is how wealth has consolidated its power and created massive barriers to entry. THAT has to be regulated. It's when corporations started assuming identities as "political individuals" that we went wrong. When business started finding ways of commodifying everything they could, including education, that we took a serious dive. In the end the issue is that capitalism will breed tyranny. It's no longer capitalism is what we're saying
I agree completely except that it's not capitalism that bred the tyranny. Yeah of course it's no longer capitalism, I know it's a loaded term but when Mussolini first coined "facism" he meant it to mean marriage between state and corporation.. Corporatism. He would be creaming his pants if he had a legislative branch like we have today, while ayn rand holds Jeffersons curly locks while he hurls into a toliet.
We haven't seen true captialism in well over a century. Moving forward into the internet age and with regards to the net neutrality issue, we 100% need the values and type of government that the founding fathers envisioned.
I read an article the other week about coffee pubs. A family run coffee shop that allows its employees to be part owners after six months of full time work. They already pay slightly over minimum wage. I can post to it later but they have a much better model than simply raising minimum wage using legislation
Ok explain. I'm interested
I love the profit share coffee pub idea, but you gotta understand that shit is always gonna be a novelty. You will never convince employers at large that paying their staff more is going help everybody, also it would be difficult and weird to write a law that says you must run your business like these coffee pubs. If you are arguing pure capitalism you're wrong. Pure capitalism is only driven by money. Someone has to speak for the people, the animals and the earth. To ensure fair play.
Your missing the big picture though, I would never want employers to have to pay a cent more than the labour is worth. Did you watch the video? He covers why profit motive is not a bad thing. And a natural thing. I am all for saving the whales but that doesn't have much to do with what we are talking about here.
mw the founders came to America because it was a clean slate, a place for opportunity that the masses can escape the tyrannical elite in Europe. The developed the constitution to keep government and the elite limited in power to give maximum freedom and opportunity to the common man. Do you see a clearer metaphor for the internet age?
a new technology opening up a new world with domains being land. The founding fathers hated the elite and oppressors and had a really good fucking ideas of how to keep their freedom. It led to America being a economic super powerhouse (on the backs of the middle class) and was unlike anything in history. Unfortunately things didn't pan out to stay that way but it needs to be how the internet needs to be run... Or rather it's how the internet naturally works and needs to stay that way without any meddling by the elite for the individual to be able to take advantage of the new opportunities
what do you think is pure capitalism? I take it your pissed because of overbording burocracies?
Personally I feel the best way to look at capitalism is as a tool of humanity to allocate ressources and create wealth. But we still need to use it right and make it work for our values. If our values are for instance that we want self empowered people that have a chance to live the life they want, we cannot allow it to run amog.That means we need to redistribution. And it some case really severe. AND we need to make it smart. It must go into education.
If you are in debt like most us-americans are, have three jobs, still can't feed your children how the fuck are you going to make YOUR luck in this land of opportunities? Point is a lot of different variables have to be in place in order for someone to be able to take advantage of this kind of system. Most people in this world never get the kind of opportunities that the likes of us lurking on forums to get better with women have.
Capitalism taken for itself has I think an inherent capacity to exploit, and some further very 'anti-capitalistic' tendencies as for instance wealth preservation at all cost and the creation of large bureaucracies that the keep serving the winners. This we have as societies and responsibility to shape markets and to define boundaries. Minimum wages are just one thing here and certainly only a tiny part of the puzzle.
There is a really cool book by a guy called David Graeber a London based Anthropologist. it's called 'Debt: the first 5000 years' http://www.amazon.com/Debt-The-First-000-Years/dp/1612191290
most facinating non-fiction book I read in the whole of 2012. And even if I don't share lots of the conclusions, it's a hell of read. It explains for instance that our whole understanding of markets since Adam Smith is based on a myth, and also why capitalism at least untamed, is always based on exploitation.
Most interesting I found that:
bartering and selling is something we just do with strangers and enemies. (that's why we don't barter with friends, and family, and help just to help etc.trusting that everybody will do his or her part in the bigger scheme of things.)
anyway Wikipedia has a better synopsis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years
I think this is a must read, especially if you are very strong feelings about capitalism.
One of the biggest reasons I believe in the free market is that it places individual human rights above all else. Who is the "we" who is going to restructure the market for collective values? That paragraph actually makes me a little sick to be honest. It suggests the "we" a powerful collective group forcibly taking from individuals and redistributing according to their values.
in a completely free market exchange can only take place if both parties believe they benefit, it's voluntary. exploitation can only take place if you allow it to happen to you.
Icewahine that's the whole point. You're not understanding the discussion here you're talking apples 'n oranges.
Then maybe we differ on 'captialism will lead to tyranny?' I'm lost otherwise