How Exactly Is Being Passive “Manly”?

Dude, why are you concerned with arguing with women? Yes, it happens sometimes and you don't want to be passive, but your head is in the wrong place. You should be learning how to be more intimate mang, thats what you should be posting about. If you really have a problem with someone and need to argue then express your opinion and give them a way to get back to your good graces, that way your relationship with them can grow.

Why are all you motherfuckers being snowflakes on my forum these days? Crazy. Stfu 

It's obnoxious and fucking asinine. Meow wtf you talking about. You used to betray women. Now you're on here preaching love and snuggles all the time? 

It's fucking aggravating, weak pussy shit. 

You think all the results or sexperiences come from being "vulnerable"? Fuck you. Stop talking about shit you don't know anything about that's always been your problem. 

Superb is bringing up a very good piont, something I've brought up countless times before, in videos and articles, etc. 

I’m interested in more context on this. When you say “arguing way too much” can you give an example? Are you just taking the opposite stance on everything for the sake of doing it? 

It seems like you would be way worse off choosing to take the opposite view as her for the sake of spiking her constantly instead of just agreeing if it’s there if you share the same view and arguing with her when you legitimately have a difference of opinion... which to your point can lead to you showing dominance.

i definitely get your point on #3 though. I made the mistake of reading the RSD forum for months and there are people that will go on and on about how unreactive they are. It led to a huge mistake I’ve been making for the last several weeks that’s been seriously hindering my own progress. “Being unreactive” is one of the most overused cliches in the PUA world so people can justify not having balls. Same thing with “I’m present and accepting of my state”...no, you’re just standing there not doing shit and that’s your narrative to make yourself feel better 

Here's my thoughts on your questions:

1)If i disagree with a chick I will definitely voice my opinion on it especially if its something im passionate about. I think you can definitely get combative with a chick and soil the mood when you two are both colliding on a topic though. I was dating a girl who had these ridiculous beliefs about everything, super esoteric spiritual woowoo stuff. She actually told me once that psychopaths and sociopaths would go to heaven if there was a heaven because they are acting in accordance with their souls lol. Now i'm not religious but I called bullshit for obvious reasons. She was indirectly justifying their actions because they "didn't know any better". Without going into heavy detail as there could be a deep discussion on the topic, I had to chime in cause of how ridiculous this was. I went into a tangent about how that isn't a proper way of thinking and it ended up pissing her off to the point where she would be like "Whatever" and "Ok sure, you know what. Whatever you say baby. You're right" or "You're so smart. Wow. So cool" - Aka, she was being super dismissive and a sarcastic cunt just to shut me up and make me look like a butthurt crazy fucker.

Didn't realize it at the moment and I actually began to think I was the one being rude or aggressive. This continued throughout the while I was seeing her and I didn't realize it till late. Whenever I felt passionate about something and would riff about it, she'd always interrupt my flow and chime in with her own thoughts or start "correcting" my opinion and finding flaws in it. Kind of like a mom does to her son. Super bossy and intrusive. Now to be fair, I let it get to this point for her to even do this cause in the courting phase with this chick that never happened, especially in the first couple months I was with her. This was a later phenomena as is with a lot of relationships when you start to fall into a pattern, lack of consistent leadership and so on...

Anyways, I had to SHUT THAT SHIT DOWN lol. And rightfully so. Did i have to be a bit combative to do so? Damn right. It was soiling the relationship to an extent. There was no room for polarity everytime she would chime in with her own opionion. It was effectively locking me up and betaizing me. She was encoraching upon and borderline mothering me. FUCK THAT. 

Again, to be fair, I did get egoic and butthurt everytime she would ruin my flow and rants about topics and there is room to say I was being tyrannical with my opinion and not letting her foster her own. That's something you have to be careful of as well. 

There's really a fine line. Arguing with a chick is not sexy. That being said, you'll have to get into heavy shit sometimes when the dialogue that's being touted out is ridiuclous or destructive. Other times you have to let bygones be bygones and realize that you can't force your opinon down someone's throat. That's controlling and dictatorial. Pick n choose strategically. It should always come from a good place though. 

It's hard for me to get into arguments with chicks I meet out at night though. In a relationship its different cause the comfort is so much higher and you see eachother a lot more which means more room for arguments. If you're arguing with chicks you meet fresh off the boat on a repeat basis, you're probably being too combative or hard-headed about some stuff. Make it a point to share with passion as opposed to stuffing it in their face. That's for your penis :D

Stuff to think about for sure. Great replies so far with lots to ponder over.

I also resent when gurus tell you to be playful about everything, including when you have to call a girl out. It’s like you’re scared to put your opinion out there and set your boundaries like a normal person, so you have to make everything a fucking joke and niggas wonder why the girls don’t take them seriously.

Sometimes it’s just the girl who’s the problem. I think I just wasn’t compatible at all with any of them. Not used to that as I usually could find common ground with most people. True, I could have acted like a bitch and indulge them in shitty behavior but I’m too much of a man now adays, I can’t allow bullshit around me just to get laid.

Right, and I agree to a certain degree. There really is an art to playfully shutting people down. You usually do that and want to to avoid breaking any social faux paus. You don’t want to scare people, more so inspire them to a better way. Its a real solid craft to be able to do it with a bit of wit, humor as well as sting.

i usually give people chances (depending on the offense). Doesnt mean i let it happen but it means i subtly let them know they’re being cray. Like if they say something, i’ll tease them about it, if they do it again, i start to build some sting to it, if it keeps going on and is a nuisance or down right destructive, then i shut that shit down.

sometimes you have to go all the way in the beginning and sometimes some light shit talking gets them in their head enough to realize their retardation. 

Either way, its a fine line and the goal is to have mastery over yourself and capability so that you can acclimate to the situation and set the standard

Varies really but ya I do hear you. Girls are a frequent amount of the time the problem lol. 

This forum is by FARRR higher quality than most other pua forums. You guys actually talk to girls lol.

​I wonder which Manwhore videos he talks about this topic in. Really, the way I'm actually behaving isn't too radical because all I'm doing is treating others how

​they treat me, and if they're being catty or mean I'm usually better at it lol 

Yeah sorry, that was coming from my point of view as someone that did just want to win arguments and be an all around dick lol. I assumed too much.

At the end of the day it’s a balance. Be the positive, fun and masculine force that  makes her feel all positive and feminine BUT she WILL respect you, there isn’t going to be a single instance where she dominates, period. What’s more important, keeping your power or getting crumbs of pussy from a girl who’s only half way respecting you thus only half way turned on?

If she don’t like you when you’re being a Man, she doesn’t really like you ever. 

I dont tolerate a Goddamn thing. I’m right in being how I am. Fuck is all this weak ass shit PUAs advocate. Advanced supplication, evolved nice guy behavior. Rubbish. Garbage. 

Ever seen one of those super positive naturals who always smile and never have anything bad to say and pretty much are always happy and approving of everyone? Works pretty well until someone with even a sliver of backbone comes along and dominates his punk ass.

Run nigga run

Superb but you're doing it wrong. There are VERY effective ways of arguing with women. That make them wet. I think you are probably close.

I cannot BELIEVE no one else on here has a better answer for him. Wtf?? There are some heavy-hitting players on here. C'mon. This was the forum for shit-talking and putting women in their place back in the day. We'd do it live on conference calls. Y'all have forgotten the face of your fathers. Lol 

Perhaps everyone is letting the current hostile PC environment de-fang and de-claw them? I guess many of the alumni are in playing it safe and living in fear? I hope it’s not the feminists having this effect. 

I dont know. Just a thought. A lot of people in the community and outside of it are TERRIFIED of ending up like that Harvey Weinstein guy or branded some kind of rapist or woman hater-abuser. Everyone is trying to be the generic successful guy, while keeping his balls and his uniqueness well tucked away while pointing the finger at the “bad guys”.

I almost fell prey to it myself, by kind of thinking that I needed to find a way to make women escalate on me to make it “okay” lol. Sheesh, nothing turns women off faster than trying to play it safe. Better off to be a total loose cannon Rake then the guy who’s gingerly protecting his reputation and “social value” out of buying into the whole player-shaming/anti-fuckboi type mentalities being heavily injected into the general consciousness. Not that being totally loose and unrestrained is ideal, but it’s much better than tippy toeing through life and living in fear.

Besides, when have PLAYERS, real players that is, ever been widely approved of and embraced? Always been hated and always been attacked, and that’s why women love us when we come and take them into our worlds, because they’re free to let go as well and be all that which the weak, beta and hypocritical sectors of society try to suppress in thtem and in us. 

I hope some alumni come in and give me a better answer, I really hope that it’s not the current state of the world that’s making you act like snowflakes on this forum.

Lulz at the low-grade manipulation tactics. You gay, superb

Naw it's just the fact there was so much anti-women rhetoric the last few years, Julien's "drama game", red pill/manosphere nonsense, I had to work pretty effectively to steer it the other direction. It just so happens this managed to coincide with the current backlash from women. 

Patriarchy itself only was able to take root because of the weak emotional/mental sublimations of young fearful men taking any excuse given to them, including the one that says female sexuality is immoral and evil, to placate their own fears of the unknown. 

You've in essence learned to cope by taking a combative stance with women, another hallmark of the "shitty natural". To "prove" your worth, male ascendency, etc. The issue is it quickly devolves into something completely unhelpful. The guys are remarking on that.

But naw we school bishes all the time. Right? ;)

Superb look at Buddhagames' old text game posts we go over it a bit. I made a vid on cockblocks and the inherent weak shittiness of attempting to always "Befriend the friend" as the pu community was so dogged and determined about back in the day.  

Are you talking about the drill you taught me last summer? If so then I have a better answer for him. I didnt really want to share that cause some guys can go nuts with it

Naw yeah never trying to spill proprietary stuff on here, but not necessarily trying to string Superb along either. Even though he's a bit of a bad apple ;)

Funny part is that those are actually my thoughts. No manipulative communication is attempted here.

I’m gonna be in Vegas in the summer and while I’m there I’m taking a Manwhore program anyway so I’ll learn all I need from you, but for now I’ll just peep the old threads/video to see if they can help me do away with my current sticking points. Thanks.

At the end of the day, you’re right. I am coping because I can’t have these people running over me. That’s never been my style.

You shoulda been here six years ago, bruh. Dass when shit was in its aggro hey day. Nowadays we just talk about our feelins 'n vagetate

deliberate illogicality?  

Yep that's a very useful tool. But naw I'm talking more along the lines of that other big push we had dude. 

It seems that for Superb that particular vein of "game" we had to take some time to develop in you, he's got it on 24/7. Lol 

I don't work with a guy live without him taking training beforehand. It's the only way to make bootcamp effective. 

I’ll keep you posted sensei. That means I need to reallocate a few resources 

"A Man doesn't need to respect a Woman in order to feel attracted to her, but a Woman needs to respect a Man in order to feel attracted to her" agree or disagree? feel there is truth to that?

Lmao this is such a great thread.

Anyone who knows me on here prob knows I'm like The antihero to guys like Superb - The Froo Froo is strong in this one. Since day 1 I've been voicing the meditation/vulnerability shit before it was the "thing" to talk about. 

You don't argue with a woman to win the verbal war. You win by making her FEEL like shit. This doesn't mean hurting her feelings like "Hey your fat"- that's a different kind of making her feel like shit that isn't productive. She should feel guilt and possibly a little sad and a whole buncha emotions - its emotions that are going to drive a change in her behavior or compliance... not some verbal sparring shennanigans lol-That's the crux of what I know. 

Couple things: 

1. The skill is shutting someone down playfully has its place. a lot of times this tool is necessary at work. But that's all it is- it's something to keep in your back pocket to use when needed at the right place and time

2. Arguing with a women comes down to standards. I have pretty clear lines that I don't let be crossed around me. If you're just picking fights with chicks randomly for the "fun" of arguing it's your ego. I've even seen you post on here Suoerb how you're great in a damage control scenario, so there's a chance you're just creating situations that allow you to play the game from where you're most comfortable- you enjoy digging a ditch cause it's where you feel most comfortable, climbing out of your little hole and playing the game with a hand tied behind your back - being contrarian is part of your game so this all kinda makes sense. 

That said, I've found that, for me, shutting a woman down and maintaining your ACTUAL standards doesn't contradict what your heroes say. Staying up in the heavens and laying the law down is HOW you maintain standards while making a woman wet. 

Comes down to eye contact, voice control and presence. It should be real fucking clear to a woman you're with when she's done something unacceptable and if they're baiting you into arguments it's because you're letting them - perhaps because you have no real standards and so it's not coming natural to properly defend what isn't there. 

I actually had a post on here that Manwhore put on the main page from when I absolutely destroyed the mom of the guy my sister was marrying. She was a dumb cunt and she knew real quick when she had to turn shit around and change her act. 

- Namaste

Lol I never really developed real standards because my experience is girls never live up to it. I mean I have basic human rights and that’s what I tend to go off in girls over tho.

does a pimp have standards? 

Absolutely. If nothing else. I do too but I give up on them, for the sake of upping my lay count or holding on to girls who have convinent pussy. You know, the usual male weaknesses haha. Smh. 

:(

LOL!

I see so clearly now. Instead of being weak sauce dude fighting with girls I gotta be more adamant about what I want. 

Absolutely. If nothing else. I do too but I give up on them, for the sake of upping my lay count or holding on to girls who have convinent pussy. You know, the usual male weaknesses haha. Smh. 

:(

LOL!

I see so clearly now. Instead of being weak sauce dude fighting with girls I gotta be more adamant about what I want. 

Good example is the other day at work there was a meeting with about 8 of us and this one Hispanic chick was just popping off at everyone and completely derailing the point of the meeting and nobody could get a word in. 

I just looked her dead in the eyes, and in moments like these I go into this flow space where I'm just so in the moment I can feel every fiber in my body and I can even kinda feel her through her eyes. She knew what was coming. 

I didnt yell in a high pitched sorta way but just calmly raised my voice and said, "[insert name] ENOUGH". Then looked around the table and smiled (again, it was a work context and broader social contexts were in play) and just said, "Everyone just calm down for a second) and as I said this I could feel my own physiology changing to match what I was saying. 

The room went dead silent and the rest of the meeting was productive. After the meeting the Hispanic lady came up and apologized for derailing the meeting. 

That was it. No argument. No verbal gymnastics. Got the point across with two words- it was almost entirely eye contact. She could see in my eyes that I wasn't fucking around and that her behavior was unacceptable.

nope. You're still looking at this as a zero sum game.  

Ima pull up a text thread where a combative lil flower ends up opening up and answering the door in her panties. 

ill get back to you in a bit- hold tight buttercup 

Great example man. The powerful simplicity of it is awesome.  That’s what I feel is one of the main differences that I see after going through training. A lot of this isn’t grandstanding like half the flashy PUA shit you see online. It IS about maximizing those types of moments though which generate so much more than I could have ever began to realize prior to training 

yeah simplicity is great but wouldn't get into the habit of thinking one size fits all because you lose the weapon and power that empathizing gives you. It may be a "fru fru" concept to some but it's a weapon and kinda like the sword in the stone, only a real king can pull it out to use effectively.

sometimes verbal gymnastics are necessary but not as a substitute to the emotional undercurrent of the conversation. 

My major successes and memorable lays and moments from game all come from situations where I was just absolutely nailing the emotional undercurrent and non verbals. 

Lol op I remember like 6-7 years ago there was a big thing around the "apocalypse opener" but random kids were going out trying it without realizing what was really behind it.

i made a post about how I used it outside one of the most exclusive clubs in New York surrounded by about 7 dudes and 2 bouncers and got away with it 100% and made this chicks knees literally buckle almost entirely bc I nailed the sub comms rather than focusing on the verbals.

butbyes verbal gymnastics are sometimes a necessary addition

Yeah I’ve had great experiences with the apocalypse opener as well haha.

Ok so I have to focus more on the “being” and not so much the doing. 

Lol so back to RSD it is? Sheesh.

whered you get that idea from? 

Nah I didn’t mean like literally going back to them. I meant like the more “woo woo” concepts.

You said only a true king could wield the sword properly...well what does a true king have inside of him? 

Strength, grace, benevolence.

Like if I was alright inside I wouldn’t have these issues. Inner game shit for sure. 

My first days in the community I was much better than I am now, even with less experience. I had so much natural ease to my Game. I was fine, I made the fatal flaw of looking for more techniques and tactics and theories. I should have just keep doing what I was doing and let shit “autocorrect” as TD says. 

Oh idk about all that

i just liked the way the king thing sounded LOL 

I gotta get off the power trip regardless 

Jihad, beautiful post mang.

well ya because it seems men were the only gender in life, society, to be the only one that empowers themselve to create and control their own destiny

oh agreed. This is awesome

Thank you Jihad. 

It seems that the problem is a “core” issue. Not so much emotional as it is mental. Mental as in I project a lot of my own toxic bullshit outwardly and have no frame of reference for positive, cool, normal, healthy interactions with women. Therefore this is why im only effective with certain kinds of women and I’m at my best when things are chaotic and difficult. I’m not gonna lie. Certain things that shouldn’t be in anyone’s comfort zone are for me. Uncomfortable for me is when everything is chill. That’s when shit is scary. 

This all is also why I wanted to seek more and more advanced “dark” technology. I figured I was advancing towards a higher level of profiency in coercion and being a bully and now it was time to get my blue belt and later my black belt. I getting thought women was all about beating them down, otherwise you get nothing. In fact, you yourself get beaten down. 

I have plenty of trauma and women are a part of it for sure. Trauma releasing excercises daily along with my meditative and yogic practices may help. 

Dude there's always drama with women, stop inventing it beforehand. You think romance is conflict. Like some sort of social-marxist definition of intimacy, haha. 90% of the time you will only succeed in commodifying the physical intimacy. And that is cheap for both of you. Yes there are always easy Dark Side machinations to every level of knowledge, "social reconstruction" and mimicries that can be exploited to work on the weak. But then you can't build shit, and you can't share this knowledge with others, because then it doesn't work on them anymore. Lol

All you succeed in doing is cutting yourself off from people until you're alone. But then you can call yourself a "pimp"! The final self-masturbatory rationalization. Happy days!

You're leading them to closer and closer intimacy, by going first. Stew on that

So essentially everything's on the board, yes sometimes you have to call a woman on her bullshit, but this is super sparingly, and it should be genuine. And then yes most of the time it's building that "you and I", while touching her in ways, and making her feel good. And then sex is just a natural thing, the consummation of the experience. 

The problem is you're now sorta wired to express yourself through conflict-oriented communication "skills". Derp! 

We want to let our women shine, and be beautiful naughty bitches. But sometimes they're also bad bitches. And they want to do asshole things. Mayhaps the sociopath gene doth linger longerest in the femalian of the persuasian, or perhaps their sometimes crazy machinations are simply a semblance of the dying remnants of partriarchal oppression, their mental assertions not based on real control over themselves or their environment, but instead funneled and forced into a fantasy world full of fiction and fanciful constructions. Plus the world blows so much smoke up their ass, it's no wonder a bunch of'em are high off their own supply. ;)

Dafuq, I could have sworn this was in response to someone in this thread. :\

And then... The Mountain Climber At Work moment happened.

Manwhore.

Your posts on here made me realize Buddhagames was right. Actually one of my own

buddies said the same thing he said but with other words.

I ENJOY working from a deficit/handicap. So I make it hard. Like I literally like to make it into something it isn’t just to feed my ego. I KNOW getting laid is easy. Just be nice, be charming and be funny, lead, be sexual. Laid. 

I however, don’t want it to be that easy, because I have stuff to prove and I have an ego to feed. I literally DENY myself sex just because I don’t look at sex and intimacy as the end goal. I look at “winning” as the end goal. I want the sex AND I want the girl HUMBLED at my feet. And the issue isn’t even women I found out. It’s me trying to be better than other guys. Like “why should I be nice when he’s mean, he’s getting more out of her etc”

Well, yeah. Taking a break from all that and I’m gonna go back to basics on my date tonight. I gotta bust a nut lol.

I’m glad I know my issue is one that my