I’m an idiot

She held your hand held your dick then told you she wouldn't fuck you. That's just mean, lol. 

Nah didn’t hold the dick lol. 

Anyway, I’m thinking I wasn’t enough of a nice guy and ran my mouth too much. I have such a tough time not talking my way out of pussy lately it’s retarded. Girls are very easily offended these days I guess

Yep. Offending girls the right way is a complicated skill set, ;). 

You've really not listed out any details whatsoever so it's difficult to see what was going on. 

Well I didn’t come out with the intent to offend or neg. I wanted to keep it normal but it’s like the more i talk the worse I do. Invariably, the best interactions are where I speak as least as possible. 

That said. I added her and she hit me up on fb asking if she’s knew me. I said yes. She asked from where I said Facebook lol. After some easy persostence I got her out. No problem at all. When she came in my car I shook her hand and she caressed and held my hand for dear life. God I’m so dumb. Such a sure lay. Immediate  attraction. 

I need to keep it sweeter. I’m 100 percent sure had I been sweeter and less myself I would have had it. She wanted a sweet, in control guy with an edge. Instead I was a wild, in control guy who wasn’t that sweet. I had my moments but only in the very beginning, then it devolved into insulting her for no reason and simply being a dick because that’s how I felt in my heart. I kind of hated her for being dumb and not understanding my verbals at times. 

Godamnn it girls are “sweet”, they respond to sweetness and cuddleness, 

I’m pretty much just a mean asshole who can’t help being a mean asshole and I’m paying for it. That’s all.

In my opinion, I think she set out to deliberately punish me, it’s not that she didn’t want to fuck me, it’s that she wouldn’t fuck me out of pride.

From her point of view, I was just not being sweet enough I think. The way I got her out was by giving her one little bit of “empathy” and that’s what made her come out. I addressed her concern “Hey what’s wrong are you scared. You can tell me” and boom, that set her on the right trajectory to some out. She didn’t even ask me anything else but “Hey you busy?” After I asked that simple, empathetic question. 

I HAD this CLICK in my mind before I went out. I told myself “Be empathetic when you talk to her” I was for a
very very very short while, and all was well, until I started with that other shit. That egoic shit. That big man talking shit being a dumbfuck shit. 

FUCK. When did I buy into this CRAP that I have to never be sweet or nice to women. That’s so dumb. The deeper issue seems to be that I don’t want to be nice to women anymore, like I may actually hate women. 

Fuck.

Mmkay right, so... pimp game? Thought that was yo thang. Seems you're lacking in the intimacy-building department. Hmm I wonder if there's some correlation there

I used to be great at building intimacy and trust. Lately it’s been failing. I’ll build it and say something mean and stupid or laugh at the girl

and something she did, can’t help it. 

I used to be great at building intimacy and trust. Lately it’s been failing. I’ll build it and say something mean and stupid or laugh at the girl

and something she did, can’t help it. 

Ok lesson learned. Girls are human beings, even if they treat me as less than human sometimes. I do feel dehumanized by women often. I have to get over that. Like now. 

Like yo why the fuck wouldn’t human beings respond to good treatment lol. 

I was so lost. Too steeped in ego protection, machismo and community dogma and other crap that I forgot that fundamentally you always catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Why wouldn’t a human being want to be treated well, complimented and charmed by a handsome gentleman like myself? That shit makes no sense to act like a piece of shit, and that’s an issue I’m going to have to work on. 

When everything around you is telling you that being nice is a weakness, you also have example and after example of this being so, you kind of believe it. As far a community dogma on this goes, I never was the typical nice guy,  

And this “stop being a nice guy” shit is for guys who were truly doormats and white knights. NOT for me. 

Not every girl is a BPD whore like the ones I’m used to, so being a complete mega piece of shit up front and just coming in like a wrecking ball with that like I’ve been conditioned to be is very limited. All this leaving a girl on a dime, cursing them out, laughing at their pain, more “healthy” girls don’t resonate with that shit. Ok these are tools (minus the laughing that’s just a straight up evil disease I must eradicate, it keeps fucking me up) but by identifying with the tools, I have become a tool. 

I actually think I’m seeking out crazy sluts and that’s why I’m all on this Pimp trip, like I want to right the wrong of a crazy girl making me do her laundry and walking her dog. That shit bothers me. Letting it go now. 

Also, I feel I can truly be my worst, lower self around these women and they accept me for it. They love it. I just wanted to optimize it lol. I really enjoy it when people accept me for my faults and actually indulge me in them, in fact that sounds like some good Game I can use with women, as long as I’m not indulging their bad behavior towards me. I

Anyway, all that to say that I’m gonna be sweeter, nicer and less crazy, I can have any type of girl this way no matter what my changing tastes are. After all they are women; and human beings. 

I found out today that I’m truly a seducer, because I actually want the girl to have a great experience with me. Like that’s what makes us great over here and it’s nothing to be ashamed of. 

Im gonna stop trying to cow the girl with words all the time, stop trying to ALWAYS assert my higher status (which even when successful causes them to shut down at times), stop laughing at them, stop getting furious inside when they dare challenge me in ways that I find distasteful, stop running my mouth and I’m gonna start being more sweet, more nice and give them more room to invest in me by shutting my mouth. 

Im not a pussy, so why overcompensate? I have boundaries and that’s all I need to assert my self respect and keep my power. Let the tools of dark side rest in their box until truly needed and then put them away immediately after I’m done until it’s time for them to come out again. 

Jesus lol.

Well seems like all your mental-emotional machinations with women, your "game" so to speak, all want to run a dark direction. E.g. break her down in some way, "negging", etc. For "pimp" game it makes sense, 1) they're attempting to break a girl down enough to gain her compliance and act against her own interests 2) they're pieces of shit. But clearly you realize that type of "relationship" is a form of oppression, based on women not having other options, and is not "competitive" in any sense of the word. 

There are so many other directions to go in. So many other ways of having fun with a girl that lead straight to intimacy. You don't need to be trying to attack women incessantly. Not to say that you shouldn't be a dick at least every once in a while, ;), but mang if that's your only game you is (not) fukt.

The funny part is I SEE where I messed up now. All had to do is what’s I usually do, which is keep my mouth shut more, be genuinely curious and let her project onto me, because when you pay attention to someone that’s what ends up happenning. That’s infinitely better Game and slicker Game than running my mouth 24/7. I also love to hear myself talk, which is a problem. 

Ultimately, I’m coming from a lower paradigm and I see it now. It’s the old pick up paradigm. 

Im already doing a lot better actually being nicer and sweeter. I think it’s normal that I kind of overkilled a few interactions and outings after really delving and excercising the “dark side”.

Time to put it to rest and get back to really Gaming, rather than taking out frustration and anger on people. 

You've heard of the "you and I" frame obviously, yeah? Think how this applies to the so-called "Dark side" game you like to engage in. How would you mix those two together. 

The simplest way I can put it for now is, "Be nice until it's time to not be nice". And a time to not be nice can be when nothing else is going to hook her attention or keep her engaged, or it can be when she's being a fucking

​cunt or when I sense she's getting bored etc. Basically, pump up as many strong positive emotions as I can, so that she rationalizes all kinds of great things in my favor. Then if she starts getting comfortable and thinks

​she can fuck me around or I sense she's getting bored or whatever else, I hit her where it hurts, but in the right amount, in the right way, and then cover my tracks if need be. Cut her and then give her a band-aid. Or I simply

​withdraw from her etc. 

​It seems the four main ways to use the "Dark side" of the force is to:

​1)Punish bad behavior

​2)Gain compliance

​3)Hook attention/keep it

​4)Create emotional dependence/addiction

WITHOUT the LIGHTSIDE of the force though, there is no room to really use the dark side, therefore:

​I have to actually IMPROVE on creating the initial EUPHORIA for the woman if you will. The initial DRAW, the initial ENTICEMENT and the POSITIVE EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE so that when I swing to the other

​end of the spectrum on her ass, it's THAT much stronger. The KEY is to be SO GOOD that she's SEEKING ME OUT. Therefore I must work on drawing investment from her, even if I have to persist a bit in the beginning

​to get her hooked on me in the first place. I have to get better at CREATING THAT BOND. 

It's like a drug addiction. Cocaine makes you feel great, and when you don't have it, you feel like shit, and all you want is to feel like you did on cocaine. In fact, it's not only the lack of cocaine that is making you

feel pain and craving, it's not the lack of the euphoria itself but the lack of even a NORMAL baseline state, due to the depletion of nuerotransmitters.

​I personally think I'm being too superficial in my Game. Not about looks but like, I'm not really having a strong of an impact using the lightside of the force so that I can work my way in deep enough to use the

​darkside effectively. Thats like such a basic and simple understanding, it's a fucking mystery why I haven't really applied it that way yet. Probably because most PUA teachings are very superficial and watered

​down anyway. 

Mmkay but if you do it when she's bored then you're going to be doing it all the time. :D And don't you know how to boss a woman around playfully? Dark side for "compliance" doesn't quite sound right. She should want to do what you want, what you guide her to do. Leading a woman should be quite simple, you're probably over-complicating it.

And naw try again with "Team Dark Side"

Well usually to lead a woman I quite simply tell her what to do, never thought to do it playfully at the same time though. It works because I usually do it in some form from the outset. 

​When I said compliance I should have been clearer. I meant to break certain kinds of resistance. I've made it to girls houses and gotten dates through getting a little nasty with the girl. I wouldn't have hooked up with a good 20 percent

​of the girls I have if I didn't get a little nasty at some point. I mean, it wasn't exaclty getting nasty, I guess you could say I aggressively called them out on their bullshit. Not really "dark side" but you can call it negativity I guess. 

“Team Darkside”. I don’t get it but I guess you’re saying that it’s something I’m doing the for girl rather than to the girl. 

As far as the mixing light light and dark, would it be like a Jeckyl and Hyde type of Game? 

Hmm. No I've never made it to a girl's house through being nasty at her. I've certainly harangued cockblocks and orbiters though. Sometimes at the very last minute too. But if I'm getting mad at a girl it's 'cuz she did something wrong and I'm fucking indignant. And then yeah I may tear her up a bit. But I don't use it as a tactic. That is dark side shit and leaves you with a fucked up sense of reality. Lol. And it definitely turns into laziness in the long run.

You mean if she's playing pattycake with all her fags and fagets at the bar/club and you're trying to get her to leave with you? Give me an example? I've definitely gotten mad on dates or during pulling, but very rarely at her. This is sort of what I'm getting at when I say "you and I" + dark side. Lol. Yes you want to project darker qualities, make fucked up jokes 'n such, but let her be a part of it with you. Get it? 

One clear example was when a gir was flat out refusing to pull with me and I called said “Ha, you chickenshit” and she was like “What do you mean” and I replied “Stop being a pussy and let’s go, the fuck” with a bratty upward tonality. I was saying it like she was being a boring ass lame who couldn’t hack it with a guy like me, who was nice enough to give her a chance. I also started walking towards the door and she followed me out. 

Another example is after a date, I was on the way to a hotel and the girl took off her shoes and put her feet on my dashboard. I said “Get your fuckin feet off my dashboard, you kidding me” and she said “Stop acting like this is a Benz or something” so I turned my car around and started driving her home, she said “What are you doing?” Im like, “You’re going home” she’s like “Wow” and takes her feet off the dashboard and puts her shoes back on. I turn back towards the hotel. Once we get outside she says “Wait, we’re gonna go in there and fuck?” I’m like “Let’s go” she’s like “Okay”. Lol. If I hadn’t checked her hard on the feet on the dashboard thing I bet she wouldn’t have fucked, even with me saying “Let’s go” at the end. Not a chance.

Another example, I was on a day 2 and I led a girl to an alley to fuck. I told her to suck my dick and she refused. So I told her “If you don’t suck, we don’t fuck” and I meant it. I was ready to pack it up. She immediately got on her knees and sucked it. After it was all said and done she was my little bitch for the next few weeks and wouldn’t shut up about how she liked how I gave her that ultimatum. 

Also you’ve seen from the recent text message example I posted on this forum, I got at the girl aggressively and she went from not replying to offering to meet. 

Theres more but yeah. I think that more than just it being “dark side” a big part of what makes it work is that it’s dominant as fuck. I don’t believe in classing girls as dominant or submissive types because I find even the most “dominant” girls go for dominant guys. Most of the girls I get with are used to dominating guys and eating them for breakfast. Even if I’m not matured in the dominance art yet, I’m good enough to not get played out like most dudes do, though I certainly have been as does everyone. 

And yes, In all the above examples I have been able to share my dark traits with the girls no problem. Interesting correlation there. 

What do you mean by laziness?

I like examples #2 and #3 lol. Example #1, however, seems a bit heavy. I don't think you want that to be your standard approach!

You've got to remember that it is not always about dominance my dude. Whatever you're looking for out of this, you will need to develop a more gentle side too. Even if that hardcore caveman stuff takes you far in attracting attention, the lack of intimacy will be a major issue in the bedroom. Lets back up a few steps though, you seem to have a good grasp of making dominant statements but do you understand the concept of masculine flamboyance?  (I know it hasn't been said much here for a while)

Never heard of masculine flamboyance. Sounds kind of gay but if you can break that down for me, I'll set aside my resistance and take the medicine. Thank you Meow.

I mean yeah that's all good, basic kiddie shit. 

Whatever works. 

That isn't really.. dark side though. Lol 

I thought it was approaching the dark side, since most community dogma is kind of watered down and not rock the boat etc. Like you never hear about guys being this dominant on the pull, or at the last minute. Usually

​it's all about "being unreactive". I was "unreactive" because I didn't come down to the womans level and get emotional, I berate and correct from a logical and centered place, not screaming at them or whatever lol. 

​Most community dogma, especially RSD preaches to always be positive. Well, Julien is the exception with the arguing, which is basically a different version of what I'm saying here.

​"How To Get Laid By Getting Into Arguments" is the Julien video I think. Not gonna link it here. For obvious reasons. 

The most dark side thing I probably done was rob a guy on a date to cause adrenaline and then segway into a makeout? Lol. Idk. Thats pretty dark or something lol.

​OK MANWHORE. You got me. I don't know WTF dark side is. Now what? 

Haha! Yeah that's all pretty mild stuff mang. You mean you robbed a dude's belongings who was on a date then made out with his girl? Yeah that's pretty hardcore. Was he a piece of shit? 

Nah I was on a date with some crazy ass bitch and I stuck up this random dude for his money, as we made our escape I made out with her lol. We bought liquor with the cash and paid for a hotel as well :)

​Sigh* what is it with these scared ass sensitive broads I been running into lately. I think that as I moved away from that street mentality I also moved onto a different class of woman, not that they're fucking

​angels either but you know what I'm saying. 

​I don't think I'm actually doing anything wrong come to think of it, I'm just a little rough around the edges for a lot of chicks. Add to that my

​verbal diareaaha and intellectual musings, I must come off utterly insane.

​BE NORMAL I guess is the "pick up" mantra for me.

Wtf

Lol