Is it better to go running before or after working out?

How long are your runs?

I tend to do them before the work-out. That way you're getting it out way instead of forcing yourself to do it after a strenuous work out.

But as long as you're not burning yourself out then i don't see it as a problem for a heavy lifting work out that will follow.

After or on separate days altogether. Save the preworkout carbs for the lifts, not your run.

I would say doing cardio in general on top of your workout is going to be like 3 hours in the gym and alot of people dont have that much time because of work ,school, etc. I usually do it on its own seperate day

Depends on what your goals are. If you wanna lose fat do it after your work out. You will be more likely to tap into pure body fat when you run after your workout. Some statistics are If you go for a run as soon as you wake up without eating you will tap into body fat within 15 minutes give or take. On a day where you run after you have eaten and worked or run some errands depending on how much you ate that day or before your workout/run or how long your workout is before the run will determine if and when you are tapping into pure body fat.

If you wanna have great cardio run anytime and run your ass off. If you wanna get huge do a power lifting routine or body building routine and eat a shit load without eating junk. If you want an athletic studly look read above.

The army sent me to Athletes Performance Institute in Pensacola, FL. Was fuckin sweet. They recommended a book called HUGE! Be careful I went to buy it on amazon and some books for gay dudes came up. I swear I didnt buy them Im totally straight. You believe me, right?    ANyway, I read the book like 5 times and couldnt put it down. So many good facts in that book. I recommend you get it. Its fuckin awesome. And I got huge. Plus its a short easy read with collaborative facts from all the top body builders over decades.

Nig I want my abs to come out. They're almost there. I am sexy as FUCK 

oh read this then

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ms-fit5.htm

MW what's your body far percentage?

from the few pics I've seen your already built. Just need to cut down that body fat to make your and pop. My guess is currently your somehwere around 10-15%?

hows your consistently with diet? How often do you eat things you know you shouldn't be per week?

you like your girly drinks and eat socially a lot (Sunday family dinner). In order to chop down those last few lbs of body fat your going to have to never cheat on your diet. That's what I feel is happening. Correct me if I'm wrong but if your having beer and pizza, any sweets, cheap carbs, those sugary fag drinks or fat girls pussy more than once in a while as a treat but instead emotionally or socially eating those foods.. That's the reason your abs aren't popping 

the elite ripped mofos view food solely as fuel. They view that chest meal as a once in a blue moon savory delicacy. Like how most people view an expensive bottle of champagne.

That being said. It doesn't matter when you run. Running burns calories. The same effect could be done by eating less. 

Im not saying dont run but for those last few percentages iti the single digits, it's all about diet consistency and patience 

LOL 

I'll try to get my body fat percentage checked out asap. Honestly I think what's happening is I just happen to be genetically inclined to collect fat on my stomach?? I wouldn't be surprised if my body fat was 10% or below. I never eat pizza or shit like that, don't drink a lot of beer, I do drink a lot of zero carb energy drinks, drink lots of water, I do enjoy sugary fag alcohol drinks (Mike's hard lemonade is for lovers), but I only drink them a couple times a week. Last time was three nights ago. 

Yes I love the "food solely as fuel" mentality, but I do like food, haha. Not comfort food, but put me in front of some gourmet asian food and I'll kick yo momma 

I used to go running EVERY day.. but I asked Mark Sisson he told me to stop doing that shit. So I run a couple times a week now. Around the same time I went 90% paleo, and they balanced each other out, in fact I slimmed down a bit more than I was when I wasn't paleo, but was running every day. 

About to grab a Mike's now

Nothing should taste as good as skinny feels

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_perform...

Here you go fatso

Dependant on your current body fat percentage. These things suck but it'll give you an idea - http://livelifeactive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bfpercentage.jpg

'K that seemed coo until it started trying to sell me a bunch of supplements. That's a lot of supplements 

If this is about cutting it doesn't really matter. Go high intensity. Crossfit style workouts or circuits will be perfect for burning fat, increasing aerobic and anaerobic threshold and your overall strength and endurance. Mix metabolic conditioning with some calisthenics or lifting and don't rest. No point in wondering about the right order you will be fucked anyway, that's the beauty of it lol. You already went paleo so I think your "fueling" is solid.

If you want to go the "traditional" route, it's still just a matter of preference. Just keep in mind that like you said doing both at once might wear you down to the point where you cannot train as effectively as if you were fresh therefor hindering your progress. If you want to maintain a high intensity for both sessions take a break of at least 3 hours in between. If that's not an option consider that running right after the workout will usually make it harder. Either because you pre-exhausted your leg muscles or your upper body workout caused your bloodflow to be dominant in that region therefor making it a little bit more "difficult" for the first couple of minutes or so.

If you ask me mix the running with a workout routine circuit style or space them out 3 hours apart. Either way you will be able to perform at a good intensity.

Your training and diet (aside from a few mikes) are on point right? Be honest. Like super consistent? Did you meet that articles requirements? Aka body fat percentage in and around 10%

then to chop down a few more percentages of body fat is going to be near the only way to get more ripped

if you follow that posted diet your going to be doing some extreme shit. Elite level. Something that's hard as fuck to do and is only temporary. Cause it's unsustainable. 

As for the sales page in there.. Keep in mind that's an article from a genius in the sports nutrition field posted on a muscle head site. Crossing streams a bit. I know it looks like they're trying to sell you on those but look.. You should be taking creatine, a multi and fish oil already. Bcaas are extremely useful for losing fat while keeping muscle. Essentially broken down proteins, think of it as whey without the calories. The green powder supplement is bomb. Something I think everyone on this forum should be on. Especially for this diet it's needed for nutritional micros (your vitamins and minerals) since you'll be eating less. 

Id see how you can do without the fat burner supplements. They basically suppress hunger and increase jitteriness to burn calories. Which can be done by running.. or fucking

do what you want but you shoul be inmost of those supplements anyways. The diet is legit though. Don't be fooled by the gimmicky site it's hosted on. Google the get shredded diet by John berardi  providing you meet the articles requirements do that and you'll be ripped in no time

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes I'm super consistent with training and diet. It's weird because.. some days I don't even feel like eating and/or eat very little, and I still can't seem to lose this belly fat. Maybe I'm with child. 

So as far as the supplements are concerned, throw me links to the shit I should buy, cheapest obviously, I don't give a fuck about name brand. I wouldn't mind a good fat burner supplement either. I'm already on a multi and fish oil, some nootropics, creatine, and pussy juice. 

This is the best fat burner I've used: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/hyper-shred.html

makes me super alert and focused as well. Make sure to drink at least a gallon a day of water. I think running after a workout is the best because as you said, it doesn't effect your lifting. The best possible thingto do would be splitting it into a two-a-day. For example, lift in the morning fasted and go run in the evening. Not many people have time for that unless they're fitness models. 

Any recommendations for nootropics?

If its for warming up and reduce muscle soreness, I would suggest you start doing foam rolling and dynamic warm-ups. here is a link to one such video:

What brand are you using for nootropics? Also i would suggest looking into Krill oil too.

Fuck yeah thanks. Anyone else have an opinion on this hyper-shred? 

http://www.amazon.com/Hyperstrength-HS13-Hypershred-60cap/dp/B001G5ZU7Q/

??

if you want abs why not experiment in crossfit for a couple months and see what it does to you. unless you've already done that before.

^^Fuck crossfit

I couldn't really tell you if that fat burner is any good. I havent looked into fat burners at all as I shy away from them. In your instance though it would be good to take for appetite suppressions, metabolic rate support. If your good on stimulants without going crazy and shaking then just get a reputable fat burner. If your sensitive to stimulants or can't stand the extreme ones for a period of time switch to a more health based one that is mainly green tea extract and CLA. Or cycle them.

Ok. Your on a multi, fish oil, creatine. pussy juice. I wouldn't skimp on the multi or greens powder (the recommended powder in the article (greens+ by genuine health) is a great one). You really get your bang for buck out of those. Creatine is creatine. Fish oil is fish oil. Or rather "Omega 3" oil. BCAA's are BCAA's. Get any ZMA supplement. Doesnt matter. It'll help what will be your shitty sleep quality and side bonus, it'll make your loads bigger. And the get shredded diet also recommeneds a product "Power Drive" by biotest. It'll help support your brain and recovery when your eating like a bird.

I'm canadian so I don't know where 'mericans get their supplements from. If you have a perferred site I'll pick them out for you but its fairly easy. Of the supplements in the get shredded diet, the ones I listed don't really matter. Just your powered greens (Greens + compared to other ones is no comparison), multi (don't buy the kirkland multi vitamins) matter most.

yeah I only got ripped as hell doing crossfit and eating the zone diet, not using any supplements besides vitamins, protein power and creatine.

when it comes to fitness the first thing I think to do is work harder cause that's what got me results, not fancy supplements.

I would DEFINITELY do crossfit.. but I don't want to pay $300 a month for that shit. If I could pay less than $100 a month I would sign up tomorrow. 

Fitness is one thing. But when it comes to body composition, overall health and many aspects of fitness diet is by far more important.

crossfit is... Kinda stupid. It's great in that it is really community based so it gets lots of ppl really into fitness and gets them off the couch when they would usually skip their lonely gym workouts. But training wise it doesn't make much sense 

nah crossfit is great. it isn't the end all be all but it's up there.

when I was say intermediate in crossfit part of my warm-up included 45 pullups, 45 dips, 45 squats, 45 situps. then I'd do a hard workout.

when I was more advanced I started working on gymnastics skills in my warm-up so I'd do like front lever progressions and muscleups.

I got up to like a 10 second front lever.

crossfit is great stuff.

I'm not sure how anyone could disparage crossfit, and I'm sure icewahine is trying to make another point, but as far as representing purely the athletic aspect, it is one of the closest things to actual combat/war that exists out there. And to me, that is the perfection of physical and athletic performance.. not lifting weights in the gym. Wtf. That's way too static.

Testing. 

^ Yayy works!

haha I forgot for a moment your ex-miltiary. Its really popular among the military and I didn't mean to be so one sided. It doesn't make sense for me and a lot of others who get into because its popular and has a strong community but have different goals than what crossfit will allow them to do. Its sweet for those who do it and achieve their goals through it, like sentry. But its kinda like the jack of all trades, good on many fronts, master of none

did not read all posts but conventional personal trainers will tell you to run both before and after as a warm up and cool down period. If you only run one time (before or after) I would definitely do before as it gets the blood flowing to all your muscles warming them up, allowing them to activate their full potential quicker into your work out as well as lessening the chance of injury.

master of none really isn't true. I don't do crossfit anymore cause I got injured but I used to push press like 205 while I was 165lbs. that's pretty strong. I don't think I ever rolled (wrestled) anyone in bjj that was in better shape than me. I still got my ass beat by dudes but it was a technique thing.

yeah most people I'm willing to bet most bodybuilders or whoever can't do muscleups, front levers, or handstand pushups.

Damn that is strong. How tall are you? Yeah I don't wanna harp on crossfit but it is what it is. A lot of bodybuilders can't do those things by that's not their focus. Crossfit on purpose doesn't have a direct focus, it's supposed to be broad and generalized. If that's your thing perfect. Sounds like you achieved your goals through it.

but damn is it really $300 a month? Geez

I would say after..Just to reserve glycogen for the actual workout. Running will always leave you looking flat though, it's not actually killing your gains as it appears

I'm 5 foot 10 inches.

broad and generalized doesn't mean you suck at everything.

it means you're good at everything.

there was a lady at the gym I went to that did like 100 mile runs, one dude ran marathons, some people competed in Olympic weightlifting competitions, there were navy seals, cops, met a special forces dude, grapplers, housewives, a model, etc. a bunch of people there as a workout rowed 26.2 miles on a concept 2 rower.

me personally I did crossfit + extra strength days cause I did jiu jitsu in a class with really strong dudes. and I wanted to be a firefighter at the time.

that never happened though ( injuries and other things) sure a guy that is a dedicated powerlifter that deadlifts 800 pounds can out deadlift a crossfitter.

he won't have as good endurance and won't be able to run as fast or far though.

I've heard of crossfitters deadlifting like 500-600 though.

it depends where your focus is. Yeah it's pretty expensive though.

I mostly did it myself using the main website for free.

One thing the crossfit gym helped me out most with was handstand pushups.

I could do like 3-5. I started doing them using bands for assistance.

Then I was knocking out like 12-15 at a time.

Fuck yeah thanks. Anyone else have an opinion on this hyper-shred? 

Alfred Shitballs

Who is this joker

Bulge.