Pre-Sex Communication (Emotional Communication + Connection/"Expectation" Setting)
This is a similar question I have that aligns pretty closely with my last post, titled “Post-Sex Communication”.
I had an interesting experience this week that both taught me a lot, and confounded the shit out of me simultaneously.
This where you guys come in. ;)
PLEASE feel free to skip to the My Question part if you’d like to avoid the context/color I provided – I like writing it out as it helps me better understand my situation/gain new perspective on my own.
*Context/Background Specifics from In-Person*
Met this absolutely delicious girl at school over the interweb, and met her out one evening. Called her as we were close to meeting in person, and off the bat she was acting iffy. One of the first things she said on the phone call was something along the lines of “yeah, so like, if this is weird/not working, let’s just like stop and not even bother”. A little off-putting, yeah? Lol. Told her “ugh, yeah, that’s kind of how this ‘dating’ thing works lol’.
Anyways, after her initial skepticism once we meet, she really calms down and gets into it. We hit it off, have a blast, and the chatter is fantastic. We shared a *TON* in common, backgrounds, interests, total video game nerds growing up, lifestyle habits, the whole bit. Towards the end she asks what I’m doing the next day – tell her nothing – and she proposes we go out that night (it’s like 12 AM at this point). We order a couple shots, then hob in an uber, go to her place, she changes/gets ready, we go to mine, have a few shots, I change quickly, and we go out. We get to a club, proceed to pound 4/5 drinks, then go to another bar, do the same, we dance intimately, sing, etc. I go to kiss her, says she doesn’t want to be “that girl”. Lol.
Hang out a bit – get a cab home. The whole time shes flip flopping SUPER hard, at first agreeing to come over, then wants me to go to her place instead, and by the end of the ride decides she doesn’t want to because she “knows what shes going to do”. I try easing her concerns, tell her we’re not going to sex if she’s not comfortable and it’s no big deal…it’s like 3:30 AM, we’re drunk and wired off red bull, we’ll just hang out and keep each other company as we’ll be up off the caffeine anyways. Blah blah blah, she gives reasons not to, and eventually once the uber gets to my place I’m like “okay, cool! All good, no biggie. I’ll text you later – had a great time”. As I’m exiting the cab, she YANKS me back in and starts to shove her tongue in my mouth, savagely making out with me. (I should’ve then YANKED her ass out of the cab but it was like 3:30 AM, tired and NOT fucking thinking).
[Could’ve been a bit more aggressive the whole night through – however – it wasn’t a trainwreck by ANY means]
*Context/Background Specifics from Text* (More important than the in-person part for my question)
Over the next few days, we text quite a bit, try calling each other multiple times and never actually get a hold of each other, was REDICULOUSLY hilarious how we never seemed to catch each other’s calls. This goes on for a while.
Try making plans a couple times, no go. I slow down communication considerably. The following weekend (about 5/6 days have elapsed since initial meet at this point), we’re talking again, and she says shes free that evening and wants to go out and do something. I make a couple suggestions, she’s wishy washy, flip flops from wanting to go out to not, says multiple times through the night it’s still not too late to go out, when I suggest something, she disappears from text. This happens 2/3 times through the day into the night.
Eventually, I let her have it. Basically, told her she’s acting super fucking bizarre, and that it’s NOT acceptable. I say this in a few different ways without directly attacking HER – I comment only on her behavior that night.
This is where she starts showing a different side of her. It was all very cryptic and indirect, telling me a lot about how she’s feeling without getting specific at all. So it’s a mix of me being able to tell she really, really likes me (sent me about 100+ texts after I call her out interspersed against me responding to her), without having any idea with regard to why she’s “so confused” and “IDK – I’m just like – IDK – I’m so like, confused. Like, IDK. I just IDK”. Like that kind of shit.
I eventually stop messaging her as it’s going nowhere and I felt okay letting it go, knowing I told her how I felt and that she was fucking up huge.
We don’t talk for 4 or 5 days.
Today, I hit her up. Ask her how she’s feeling. Says terrible. I probe a little bit, and eventually get an answer that she “feels used”. She doesn’t say too much. I tell her I won’t ask anymore, and that assuming that wasn’t directed at me and despite her acting bizarre the other weekend when trying to make plans, she was fun and I’d like to see her again. She then comes out and tells me that wasn’t what she meant – and that she “realizes why it’s probably better to pursue guys who are older (me – she’s 22), guys like me, you were so much fun, and I loved talking to you, and I’m not sure why we haven’t hung out since, maybe I get confused” yadda yadda. Paraphrasing.
Realizing what’s happening, I decide, fuck it. No more stoic shit. I have to say SOMETHING, realizing this will be dead in the water unless I show her that I too really enjoyed her as well. So I do. Long winded text to her. Tell her she’s fucking gorgeous, she’s hilarious, intelligent, fun yadda yadda. Tell her I really liked spending time with her, that I’m an extremely emotional guy, and that if she’s into this game playing BS where we both pretend we’re not interested, and try to keep each other in the dark, that I’m out and done. Essentially, I’m tired of the BS games and the pretending to feel a certain way when in reality I feel a different way.
She *COMPLETELY* does an emotional 180. Spills SO MANY FUCKING DETAILS OUT at this point. Like SO MUCH MORE in 30 mins than I knew in the previous hours we hung out/spent texting.
Here are some of the KEY points to me that were mind melting:
· She assumed when I stopped texting her I completely forgot about her and didn’t once think of her at ALL
· She thought I was going on a million dates and sleeping with other girls the day after we had that little “fall out” and felt hurt by this.
· She told me she thought about inviting me out a million times but decided not to, because she wanted to look her BEST to IMPRESS ME and refused to see if she didn’t get ready beforehand in fear she’d blow it with me (yet was okay letting it die had I not messaged her..) – OR – that she was afraid she’d look stupid and thought I probably just forgot about her..
· Didn’t want to hang out with me that night because it was late, would take her 1+ hours to shower/get ready blah blah and decided not to because she felt embarrassed not “looking her best” for me – WHICH I PERCEIVED AS A BIG FUCK YOU TO ME at the time.
· Later find out she was kind of seeing some other guy at the time as well, saw him a few times, felt “pressured” to make him happy and thought he was cool, has sex with him and he tosses her ass to the side. (the “I feel used part”)
· How the whole time she was with him, she was wondering “why I didn’t just hang out with Envee instead, as he has all of the qualities I’d ever want in a guy”.
· That she’s NEVER had a boyfriend, let alone gone on many dates before in her life (she’s HOT). Still not sure I believe this lol.
· That she was CRAZY about me, but was so scared of what would happen if she kept seeing me, second guessing herself if it would be good/bad, if I was/wasn’t an asshole, where it is/isn’t going to go, etc.
There’s so much I’m leaving out her, but this is the main gist of it.
By the end of this all, she turned into a different person, being SO much more open/playful/easy going/fun.
By the end of today, we couldn’t hang out as she has a conference to go to tomorrow morning until late that night – plus it’s a couple hours away.
From my experience, someone is almost always “more into the person than the other” in some shape or form.
My confusion lays here – once I TOLD HER that I really enjoyed hanging out with her, had a fucking blast, thought she was incredible and that I really liked her – she TOTALLY CHANGED and COMPLETELY OPENED UP TO ME in a way she never has before. Before this – I never once acted like an ASSHOLE to her or communicated to her she was a piece of pussy in any way that was clear to me – so I was surprised by this.
One thing she DID say, was after I described a sexy dream I had of her (to which she ASKED ME TO ELABORATE ON MULTIPLE TIMES before I finally did) – and then said because of that, she was afraid I just wanted to fuck her and leave. Lol…
However, by the end of it, I almost felt BAD because I can totally see how she now may be building an expectation in her head of what will come of this (i.e. BOYFRIEND). This is not something I want in my life right now. Realizing this, I told her at the end, basically I’m not sure what’s going to come of this, and I don’t want to feel pressured either way. All I know for certain is I really enjoy hanging out with her, and would like to spend more time together. This went over really well, and she continued to blow up my phone as we talked about random things and such.
Where does one draw the line in expressing to a girl that you think she’s funny/attractive/intelligent/great to be around – in “fear” that you are building an expectation in her head, only to potentially break her emotionally once she realizes I am not willing to be in an exclusive relationship.
Here’s the thing – I can almost guarantee that had I not opened up myself and told her I really liked her/the above qualities I expressed about her/showed her a MUCH more emotional side – she would not have met me out, even though she really likes/was thinking about me all week. Yet she NEVER ONCE expressed ANY desire in having a boyfriend. She sells/uses drugs, got completely hammered with me the first date until like 4 AM, and so I reasonably assumed she was looking for a casual thing.
I still don’t know for certain she wants a boyfriend – when girls express fear that a guy “just wants to fuck” – does this mean they SPECFICALLY desire a boyfriend, or are open to an ongoing casual thing PROVIDED you are emotionally fulfilling/expressive, too (minus the exclusivity)? I realize this is black/white thinking and one can’t know for sure…
Is BEING this open/vulnerable this early TOO much TOO early? Should I just have let things slide and moved on if she wasn’t more into my “casual/non-emotionally expressive” approach to things? Did I done do bad?
I guess what I’m saying is – I feel like most women have a hard time separating sex and emotion, and I’m encountering what I realize to be an immature, moral dilemma about how to approach things. Sure, I could continue to improve on this aspect of my expression and do this MORE with girls, and although I’m not being a complete fuckboi about this, explicitly lying about my intentions and desires just to fuck her, what I did say was true about her (really, really like her, like spending time with her), although to me that doesn’t in my mind imply I want to exclusively date – whereas also IN MY MIND I feel like girls might see my expression as meaning some VERY different and setting FALSE EXPECTATIONS (read: RELATIONSHIP) once they find out my desire to remain single.
Again, realizing that usually SOMEONE is more into it than the other, I’d obviously much rather be on the less-attached side of things, as I’ve gotten burned being an idiot and falling for girls too fast. Having said this, I am NOT explicitly lying/manipulating girls just to fuck them. I really enjoy having emotional connections with girls, even if it’s very casual. This whole aloof/completely emotionally detached thing isn’t working for me, and leaves me feeling quite empty after the initial “high” – especially when they ghost on you lol.
And I can now see how I’ve lost SO MANY GIRLS from having an ongoing thing with, all because I didn’t add this emotional element in. It was TOTALLY my fault.
So this is where I’m struggling here.
Perhaps this answer is very simple, and is along the lines of it being THEIR OWN FAULT if they become too attached too early and get hurt. I hate being this stoic motherfuck and pretending I don’t have emotions for girls and not expressing myself, even if I don’t want to exclusively date them.
And ALSO perhaps, what may be a simple answer to you guys is MIND blowing to me, because I’ve spent almost my entire life living this way, and only recently in the past month or 2 explored breaking out of this way of living with the past couple girls I’ve been with. Crazy. I know.
***sometimes it feels like a trapeze act where if you show TOO MUCH TOO EARLY you seem like a pussy/bitch in the girls’ eyes, whereas if you are too stoic/aloof, they don’t want to see you a second time (whether or not you fucked) because to them they feel cheap/used/unfulfilled*** I get that people are different. Just an observation.
WHEW, was a long one.
Any general input on the topic is greatly appreciated as always.
Where else are you posting this? Can you please edit it so it displays correctly, thanks.
Not sure how that editting got so effed up hah
The last 1/4th I didn't even read. You're treating this girl like her internal emotional machinations were logical and sound. They're aren't. Stop being beholden to such emotional bullshit you're going on a fucking stupid emotional roller coaster and it's dumb to read. If things are starting to look like they're going into emotional la la land they probably are. You need to lead and assert yourself better because women will go ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE. You lead dude. What happened was stupid!
Am I emotional and romantic with girls? Yes. When they deserve it. But this is obviously a young dumb girl that doesn't know her ass from a jellybean and needs a firmer hand. You let her get squirrely and that's your own fault.
She doesn't feel safe? Make her feel safe. She doesn't feel comfortable sleeping with you? Make her feel comfortable. She feels you're going to fuck her and chuck her? She should not be focused on that. It was your lack of emotional leadership that put the wind in her psycho sails.
If you LIKED this girl.. why didn't you take a firmer hand? You obviously 100% trust your intentions at that point so her misgivings are misplaced. So ignore and give her something else to focus on.