Teleconference #7: WHY Should I Fuck You? From Jack.Ruby

kinda gave me a boner

...for a guy like me that still doesn't completely understand the concept of prizing myself, not only is this a great thing to say to a girl, but it is also a fantastic mentality to have.

I'm really excited to hear more about it. Seems like Jack.Ruby has an INSANE amount of control over these girls

It's very counterintuitive.

Like initially when you get into the game it's like be constantly ESCALATING on the girl, make sure that she knows you're a MAN, the average chode can't even touch a girl.  But this seems like the opposite of that.  No that's not the right word.  More advanced, more subtle, more prize like etc. It's projecting leading her to the idea that you're the prize and she's investing towards fucking you by her escalating and you did it by setting a hoop for her to jump through. It makes you out to be the prize in such an intense moment.  Fucking crazy shit; still trying to grasp how it works what kind of frame he's coming from etc.

Definitely want to hear more about this.  About to read more of this LMR stuff before I pass out.

Wish I could have been on this call. I've used variations of this I.e. "Why do you want to fuck me?" "How bad do you want it?"Usually right before penetration. I can see why this is so powerful but I would love to hear it from Jack or MW in context. 

Yep it was dope. The part where Ruby pulled out right before she was going to come then looked at her and said " Dont you fucking dare" was suuper boss aswell.

Manwhore, I also really liked how you said reverse psychology doesnt exist in male/female dynamics and the girl can know youre full of shit but she will still feel the the same emotions. I think one of the examples was with a girl you hadnt been able to sleep with. So while she was blowing you you told her that she can keep sucking your dick but theres no way your going to fuck her. Within the next minute she threw her panties off and jumper your bones haha. 

Awesomely powerful stuff

I think ive posted about this before on the forum but months ago I was chatting up this girl out the front of a nightclub and she was being super aloof and acting somewhat disinterested. The conversation started dying so I did a fake break up takeaway. I told her it wasnt working out and im coming over on monday to pick up my dvd collection then turned my back to her. I turned back to face her and within 10 seconds she grabbed me and started kissing me like crazy.

I know fake breakups and take aways arent a new concept but I was shocked at the display of its power that I witnessed that night.

One of these girls was a 21 yr old who was over watching a movie. She won a bet for a massage while we watched, also she asked if I could help her move a piece of furniture this week. Both of those were fine but I felt I needed to flip the script a bit. I shot a look at her and said "wtf is this? What are you going to do for me?!"  She surrenders to my glare and says "make you dinner.. Clean your car... <glaring at her>... Rock your world.." Most of this is sub communication, she can see that I'm not a guy who's used to running around massaging girls and shuttling furniture around. I can tell instantly that she regrets asking for the furniture move, she even almost becomes apologetic for winning the bet. Jon described a rockstar type frame where it would be incongruent to ask "can I see you?", well this is more like the high value "rockstar frame". Almost like "how dare you ask me to move some furniture?", she fell in line pretty quickly after a breif slip up or two.  

By the time I got her to the bedroom she was saying some crazy shit to me like "oh my god I've been needing to get fucked by a real man.." I got undressed and threw myself down on the bed, she nuzzled into me and started kissing me and grabbing me. I pulled her panties off, left her tank top on, and started playing with her pussy.

She says "fuck me" 

"why should I?"

"your dick is so fucking hard"

"You like that?" 

"Fuck yeah"

"You want me to fuck you?"

"yes.."

"Ask nicely"

"please.."

I'm not convinced so I grab her hair, she loves it

"beg me.."

"please fuck me.. Please!"

"fine I'll fuck you but you don't get to come unless I say so"

I'd fuck her for awhile without letting her, I'd pull out  "don't you fucking dare!"

"...please, please make me come!"

...you get the idea, by the time I was done with this girl she was sobbing, cumming all over the place and begging me 

Btw meow.. It's not about having control OVER these girls, its more about having such a grounded sexual self-control she's literally begging to surrender to it.

there was another girl this weekend that was very similar to this, she was also begging me to let her suck my cock, I was calling her a horny little slut, that she couldn't even help herself

Damn that's awesome.  

It's been interesting exploring how far I can take this.. One if these girls is my girlfriend, its been cool exploring and taking it to new levels. The main girl in this story is a new lay that I just met that night, I can't say I've ever gone that far with a new girl. The girl was pretty cute, I might still be a bit hung up on pushing it with the really hot girls. It's a sticking point. That'll be the next thing for me to push through

How would you describe - how you're coming across to these girls ( in person upon meeting them out at a bar or such and then in person like while watching a movie like you said) that makes a girl think that ok this is the type of guy that I will "beg for his cock" inside me?

p.s. That's fucking bad ass.  You sir are a certified bad ass©

thats an excellent question ItsMario(!). I might come up with a better answer here but for starters she's not thinking that, she's kind of in a trance. The short, pua answer is "masculine polarity". When a girl is in the presence of that kind of strength and control she feels total safety and freedom. All her insecurities and defences are dissolved, she feels like she can fully surrender control and lose herself completely in her own feminine sexual expression. This is fine but probably hard to understand and not that practical, I'll chew on it some more

Okay, so idk how it is for other guys on the forum, but at least for me, I have a TON of thoughts on this kind of shit. 

First off- I'ms uper into light bondage type shit, and LOVE playing around with these frames - some of the more fun, and sexually arousing  frames to work with in my oppinion. 

Now here's the thing- I've been in this type of situation a lot over the course of my life. It doesn't happen consistently, but in the overall course of my life, I've had this kind of relatinoshp a lot.  

But whenever it does happen- it's like, "Oh shit". As in, it's a total surprise to me that it's happening. For me, it's like if I'm in the right "zone" and hitting the right "frequency" with the girl, it just happens and then obviously I just sorta naturally know how to roll with it, and play around with it- cause once it's happening, it's relaly easy to sorta test the boundaries- cause you're hitting that frequency and it's like a trance we're both in (Probably me slightly less than her- but I'm def. right there with her in that moment)

Anyway- The issue is that I don't see myself as "skilled" bc of any of this, or like I 'Know what I'm doing"... Because I can't replicate it. Like it's almost as if it just happens when it happens, and the rest of the time, it's not happening.

I guess I would love Jack Ruby's insights on how he gets there... because I'm in a position where I've been there but have no idea how to get there... 

And it's not a real issue, but only an issue insofar as I really fucking enjoy it and I think it makes sex way more awesome, but like some girls I'm just not on that frequency with, and the sex is shittier bc of it. 

And yeah- I'd say I'm at a point where the closer I am with a girl, the more this shit happens.... Like it doesn't happen a lot right out the gates but it's much more common after I've fucked a girl for a lil. 

Thoughts?  

Like the more I think about it...

I'ts almost like some girls I just get a vibe that I can go there with them, so I start testing that envelope and I'll notice how they respond, and just push it a lil more with like little inuendos... agh idk haha I honestly have no idea how it happens... 

So yeah, clearly I'm clueless about this shit. Typical chode, "Durr it just happens durr" 

HOW DO YOU CONSCIOUSLY CULTIVE THE RIGHT ENVIRONMENT FOR THIS FRAME? 

That's my question. 

first off, I think its a lot to do with the girl. Some (probably most) girls for whatever reason (probably valid ones) are scared or even terrified to release control. I would say that these same girls are standing in their own way from experiencing their best orgasms, they might even be incapable of orgasms. 

So a better question to ask is how do you create an environment where the girl feels safe to release control with you?

i would say it depends on the girl. I'd say it involves getting out of your head and really tuning into her state, her desires, her insecurities, her reservations. If she feels like you're firmly in control of yourself, and also aware of what's going on with her, its a start. This doesn't necessarily mean that you should be hypersensitive and reactive to every little speed bump, but it generally helps to be aware of them. 

A friend, mentor and sex expert once defined sexual mastery to me as: the ability to make her feel what you want her to and then feel those feelings through her

Yeah, I think as a relative baseline you must be more present than her at all times. I'm just like pottedflowers, I've made this happen on multiple occasions.

It's like I know how it works and why, but I'm not fully owning being that guy all the time. Only when I "feel like it".

It's honestly pretty weak. I'll work on this. I think being completely shameless is a huge part of it.

"I don't give a fuck what you think, this is what's happening right now and you're gonna love it." - personified

^^^ this type of mindset. Obviously making minor changes to adjust to her reality so she doesn't think you're a psycho lol

It probably helps that I've read, studied about and had a lot of sex. I feel pretty confident about my sexual abilities generally speaking. This allows me to really prize myself. Like I pretty much knew that if I let this girl fuck me that it would be that most mind blowing experience she's ever had. I guess you could say that's "the frame"

Jon I'm looking for an article that was linked from your main site

http://badassdating.com/turns-women-on-essential-reading-sex-surrender/

was the link, its broken now. Great article if it still exists

badassdating.com has a write up that is ok, the links are all broken though

LOL. Jack. You're coming from "adequacy beliefs" (that's the 'frame') and manipulating her "compensation behaviors." You're basically

1) Calling attention to her inadequacy belief

2) She feels inadequate or that getting you would increase her sense of adequacy

3) she has two options, either the "compensation behavior" (IE try to increase her self-esteem) trying to convince you that she's good enough, in order to "fill the self-esteem cup" and hence fuck you OR she can take the hit (which will never happen).

This is exactly how advertising works. Point out a lack and offer a compensation IE "buy our product."

Infantballs you're way too narrow in how you're "seeing" things. It's a young guy thing you need to stop trying to put everything in such a small box. I noticed it first in how you took the whole "wife/husband" thing and started defining that as "game". 

Jack is this it?

http://gobeyonddating.com/8125/surrender/

http://gobeyonddating.com/8609/how-to-make-a-girl-come/

Inb4 Infinity w/ his "husband/wife" frame. 

Those are good but not the one I'm looking for. I haven't read it for awhile but I recall it being pretty on point with what we're discussing. I sent a link to a friend, there's still a thumbnail there with this intro

http://gobeyonddating.com/8863/how-to-turn-a-girl-on-fast/

Ok not sure if that's exactly it but that's what I was looking for. there are a lot of answers in there as well as a lot of clues on where to look. If you really get all this stuff and she can sense it, that you're ok with it, ok with her, you accept her, understand her and what its like, are in control without needing to take control.. That's what she's looking for, that's what she wants to surrender to, that's what's going to make her beg to suck your cock and love doing it. It's kind of like a universe in a grain of sand. With a look, a gesture, your body language, she can see that you get it. you're a rock.  She feels safe, she wants to surrender

Holmes that's Brian my old partner. He wrote the article those are both his sites lol. But yeah his ability to annunciate that stuff is pretty legendary. 

I'm trying to implicate where Jack Ruby is coming from when he would say, "why should I fuck you?"

On the lower level it appears as "prizing" and "qualification." And that's correct. Those are the "skill level." I'm talking about "belief level." He's doing something on a deeper level, that prizing and qualification are a natural result of... Call it "masculine power" or "100% belief," ...or whatever. I'm using the terminology of "Adequacy/Inadequacy" to simplify and show the polarity, IE how you can come from that set of beliefs and things just work and you can see where other people are at and predict their behaviors.

Am I totally off the deep end with this lol?

Well adequacy/inadequacy is a solid system to explore particular dynamics for sure. But it's pretty darn wrong in this case. For one thing what you're doing is painting her behavior in a TERRIBLE light. You're putting this in a win/lose perspective. It's NOT. It's win/win. Especially when Jack.Ruby's the one driving the boat. 

Yeah these articles are really good

http://gobeyonddating.com/8504/how-to-turn-a-girl-on-real-talk/

AHHH. I see. I was hoping to get the "Adequacy" side of this out earlier, but I just got done with a grueling 85 hours in the last 7 days. I'm definitely going to include how empathy plays into this. The truth is, if you are playing WIN/LOSE, you are not coming from adequacy beliefs. Period. Win/lose doesn't enter the mind of someone with adequacy beliefs. If you are playing win/lose, that's inadequacy beliefs manifesting as compensation behaviors trying to fill their inadequacy. The whole idea of adequacy beliefs is that you fully believe you are complete and your behaviors are 100% an expression of that adequacy.

You can take one guy and tell him to say this exact line and it will be win/lose and it will fail. Another guy can say it and it's win/win and he's a hero. I'm trying to show the belief system behind it.

I think you're focusing on a small piece of the puzzle here.  As far as this adequacy/inadequacy theory, I think you're off the mark still. These are not girls with self esteem issues. If your theory is correct then that means the nature of masculine/feminine dynamics is an adequacy/inadequacy structure. I'm not an expert on this theory but from what I'm reading here, it seems off

Read it again monkey. 

Have you ever run a line like this on a girl and had her do something you didn't expect? I sure as fuck have. For example, she throws it back to you like,  "Because I'm awesome." or "Because you want me." I've run stuff like this on girls with "adequacy beliefs" and it doesn't work.

ya there's some cheesy stuff about money and beards(?) in that one but I thought there was some good stuff too

No I was talking to Infantballs 

Sure. But I think (and again I'm just beginning to understand this adequacy/inadequacy thing) girls with "adequacy" or "inadequacy" beliefs might both be capable of answering this way, just as they might each be capable of surrender the other way. I don't think that either of these girls are coming from "inadequacy", I have to disagree with this theory

Actually, now that I've thought about it a little more, I'm gonna take a stance here and say I wouldn't use a line like, "Why should I fuck you?" The question itself is almost a neg and win/lose, not necessarily the girl's issue. I explained why it works on that type of girl, but there's a better place you can be coming from. Think of guys like Tim, he talks about the belief that you are the "coolest motherfucker on the planet." Guys like Tim don't think in terms of, "Why should I fuck you?" They think in terms of, "Why shouldn't we fuck. Of course we are." Guys who have the belief that they are absolute badasses, think in terms of adequacy and encouraging that adequacy out of other people. I'm not trying to bring anyone down or be a dick, I'm trying to point out that having THAT mentality is SO MUCH more attractive than using a line like, "Why should I fuck you?"

Okay I'm running on no sleep and passing out. This line is GREAT and the mindset behind it is AMAZING. How would I know? Well, I'll do a write up tomorrow 

This is exactly why you don't try to narrow things down so much and then be stubborn about it lol. You have completely closed yourself off to this. You're seeing this as a frame battle, "I must win!" 

You're missing something infinity. G, MW, and I are just trying to get you to keep an open mind. I'm realizing now that I might not have painted exactly the right picture in describing how the sex went down. When I said she was sobbing, its because I had just given her several of the most powerful orgasms she had ever had, I wasn't at all being a dick to this girl. She said to me at one point while my cock was buried in her, as she was trying to choke back tears "I think I'm going to cry.." I said to her "go ahead sweetie it's ok, I got you" and I just held her as she let go and just started sobbing. It was a sweet moment where she probably experienced real release for the first time

Oh shit. This is the contex you are using it in. I get it now. You're using this in the bedroom. A l skipped that and assumed you were using this in the bar/club to pick up girls and I was like, OK take it easy there Swinggcat. LOL my bad.

I'm full ears on this.

Okay so I experimented with this last night with my primary girl. She had pissed me off the past couple of days so I was ignoring her. She called me and said she was on her way over to talk. I was genuinely pretty irked at this point so we go in my room. Hash everything out and she keeps trying to kiss me. I don't reciprocate on purpose. This obviously frustrates her but I can tell it's making her wet. I either move my lips away or don't kiss her back when she puts her lips on mine. We start having sex and I stil refuse to kiss her.

'Why should I fuck you?"

"Because you want to."

"No."

"Because you like me."

"No."

"Because I love you."

And then I bang her HARD. This makes her go absolutely crazy. Writhing, moaning, the works.

At some point after three or four orgasms she keeps telling me she doesn't know what's gotten into me but it's so hot and aggressive. Whihc basically tells me I have to keep this edge at all times. I can't get comfortable and fall off. It's easy to have a girl at your disposal for casual hot sex. But it's much more powerful and pleasureful to really change their reality and conciousness and agressively dictate their emotions to the point of ecstasy.

I'm super pissed I  missed this teleconference but this thread is awesome and i appreciate the value.

Btw, I'm not hating on the whole "adequacy/inadequacy" system or whatever but I'm also not giving it any air to breathe here whatsoever. It reminds me of Bateman's phase of spiritual hooplah. Yes, it's a valid way to examine things but it's also not an end all be all for human behavior. Lets hit on this from all angles instead of hitting the subject from one perspective.

Dude... We went through this whole argument and you didn't even read the write up? Infant nuts!

:/

Double

thats awesome G lol. Don't be too hard on yourself if you catch yourself "losing your edge". If it happens you probably don't want to try and force it too much. Just observe it and let the pendulum swing back around

I get the psychological aspect of this, I've done it quite a few times though not to the same extent as you. But could you talk more about the physical aspect to this? I've found I can only do this totally congruently if I'm super in the zone after doing yoga or something. I used to tease the girl to no end, but then when I'd start pounding away I'd only last long enough to make her cum once at best lol. Yoga has made me infinitely better in bed, it's like I can distance myself from sensation but feel it even stronger, when I concentrate on the waves of energy flowing from my dick I've noticed girls start instatly squirming and moaning harder. Thoughts?

That's very true. Thanks Ruby

slow way down and set your own rhythm. As a dj you almost certainly already have a good handle on this concept. Think about building up a set and watching the crowd go nuts when they feel its about to drop. You can give them a taste and then pull it back. They can go nuts all they want but because you're the one on dex, you're the one who sets the rhythm. Just because you pulled it away doesn't mean they won't still get there, you can just keep building.  To bring this back to sex, you're looking to become grounded, out of your head and get back into your body. Bide your time. Be mindful of your breathing, slow it down. breathe into your dick and your balls. Take your time and realize that it takes practice and patience, fuck it up a few times and don't worry about it. 

Does this answer the question? I probably have more for you on this if you can give more of a writeup. do a new thread if you want, its a good topic

David Deida has a good chapter on sex in his books but I'm sure there's much better sources. Any videos or books you recommend Jack or MW? I started the Sex God Method but never got through it.

I feel like I'm getting a much better grasp on sex and my presence is certainly improving. But I can definitely improve in the areas of immersion and making the girl psychologically more stimulated. That's probably my biggest problem right now

Alex Allman is a personal friend of mine, his book is called "revolutionary sex" and he has vids on YouTube, there's some good stuff in there. I like David deida, sex god has some good stuff too. There's a video that's basically a porn called 2 girls teach sex, its mostly a joke, and porn, but it has milliseconds of decent stuff in there if you wade through it. I've also learned a lot about sex from fetish porn. It seems weird but I find that mainstream porn is too much 'show' but when you get into the weirder stuff I find that it often involves people who are really into it. I've read some of nancy Fridays "my secret garden" and learned a lot.  I've learned a ton by reading up on people's real life sex experiences, traumas, even rape. I won't go into why, pm me if you want about it. I don't get off on that stuff and its hard for me to read but its opened my eyes about a lot of things and helped me understand women's perspective.

http://www.revolutionarysex.com/the-motion-in-the-ocean-women-tell-the-t...