The Manifesto From The Santa Barbara Mass Slayer

Having watched less than two minutes of the video, that guy is scary as fuck. Like, for real.

Yes, I think the community could have helped. Anybody whos resourceful enough to orchestrate a mass murder plot is probably smart enough to learn game. To me it's just more evidence of how damaging social conditioning can be. But at the same time, there is all kinds of messed up shit in the world and I don't really think the universe gives a fuck about any of us, so you just have to keep going and do your best. Or turn into this guy, which is never good.

I do think the way he speaks is funny though, it's almost the exact voice Tyler would use to mock somebody like him. The gentlemen part. Not the mass murderer part.

This is what someone posted on rsdnation:

"Rodger was a website forum called PUAHate.com, which describes itself as the 'Anti-Pickup-Artist Movement' and aims to reveal 'the scams, deception, and misleading marketing techniques used by dating gurus and the seduction community to deceive men and profit from them.'

Its members are all men who have spent a lot of time and money on books and seminars and other materials that claim to help men 'pick-up' women - but failed.

The bitter, often misogynistic threads are full of tales of woe from men who don't know how to get women to date them and blame the women themselves for the problem.

He posted in 2013, 'If you could release a virus that would kill every single man on Earth, except for yourself because you would have the antidote, would you do it? You will be the only man left, with all the females. You would be able to have your pick of any beautiful woman you want, as well as having dealt vengeance on the men who took them from you. Imagine how satisfying that would be.'

Rodger's actions have been lauded on the site by other members who have called him a 'hero.'

Brown said the shootings occurred at several sites in the town, resulting in nine crime scenes.

Santa Barbara County sheriff's spokeswoman Kelly Hoover told KEYT-TV the gunfire broke out around 9:30 p.m. Friday in the Isla Vista neighborhood.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html#ixzz32eYjlwkT"

Nah, I don't think the community could have helped a guy this deep.

He is fucked up and deserved to die, just too bad he took all those other lives with him. 

It's not what people want to hear, and a year ago I probably would have been really pissed if I heard someone say this, but some people just need to die so the rest of the world can be a better place, and this guy is one of those people.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/24/1301671/-Elliot-Roger-Gunman-in...

Wow thats fuckin creepy

I sympathize for him a bit tho, because those thoughts he was having are extremely common. I wonder if he was diagnosed with any mental issues prior to this incident.

He needed training and he would have been fine. He's obviously a "man of action", don't mean to be unsympathetic but the dude WAS searching for an answer and willing to step up and make something happen. Very tragic outcome. It was simply the extreme conclusion of allowing himself to be fueled in the wrong direction. Your brain will come up with all kinds of rationalizations for not changing itself, and so your sense of drive will simply turn inwards and become frustration. 

I see your point Jon and in a manner of speaking I agree with you, part of me agrees with pottypower too. And to quote wise ol Alfred, some people just want to watch the world burn. It's kind of moot and the wrong question to ask anyway IMO, I liked your question from our earlier chat better:

how did he get this way? Parenting? Society? What's the true cause and effect mechanism here?

Yup, I had this exact thing happen to me when I was super sheltered growing up. Wanted to take action to get chicks, knew parents would get mad at me/punish me so I didn't, and then rationalizations start stacking up. I never got to as extreme a point as this guy obviously, just made excuses for not taking action like "oh well, in college things will be different". But yeah, I think he could have been helped if he had a little bit of direction.

I get what pottedflowers is saying as well though. I've definitely thought that about some people before. But I honestly think this guy could have been saved.

I don't think he's crazy, just extremely frustrated like MW said. And he has a desire to change. He's not like Hitler or Ted Bundy or someone like that who just wants to kill and has no desire to change their paradigm.

Manwhore likes to throw stuff in the mix to keep the conversation going... So I appreciate that

But yeah, I think that asking whether training could have helped him is kinda a weird question... I took the bate, so that's my fault, but yeah..

What?? 

Here's the thing, and this is why  he needed to not be on this planet. 

Rezzn- you yourself just said that he, "Was just frustrated"......

So when this kid gets, "Just frustrated" he  kills people....  

Based on that trait alone, he is better off dead.  When your response to frustration is to go on a mass killing spree through a college campus- that's called being a "Psychopath", and it's also an evolutionary response to frustration that clearly is meant to be weeded out of existence (thus why he is dead without any children). There are certain things in life that you don't get a second chance after. You don't get to say you're sorry. You don't get to be rehabilitated. And, in this case, evolution is the judge/jury/executionar..

Yes, he had a frustration that lots of guys have.... so yes, it's easier to relate to some of it, on some level.... But that doesn't make him any more human, despite how it may seem.

Well, this was years upon years of frustration/hopelessness that stacked up. It didn't happen overnight. If it did I would probably agree with you.

Furthermore, lots of people who are in hopeless situations/environments that encourage anti-social behavior do crazy things. Just look at all the suicide bombers in the world. If that person had grown up in America, they probably wouldn't have become a suicide bomber. But if you have someone who has grown up in a warring country, and all they've ever seen is people getting killed, poverty, no access to technology or hope for a better future AND then you combine a culture that encourages some crazy behavior as a way out (terrorist organizations and 1000 virgins in heaven) then yes people do crazy things. I blame social conditioning to a small degree for making his game suck, but mostly blame PUAHate for encouraging this type of extreme behavior. The people on the website were praising him as a "hero". Sounds a lot like the psychology of terrorists to me. He was probably a member of that site for years. I could easily see how he could get fucked up being a part of that.

Maybe he was mentally ill in some way and maybe he was beyond saving. But it does seem to me that if he had guidance earlier on then he could have been saved.

Yeah, those are some good points//questions

None of them excuse him for doing what he did, and he absolutely deserves to be dead. 

But I think your post is really just pointing back at what Jack said about Manwhore's first question, which was how this whole thing happened....

Anyway, I gotta meditate and head out.....

For sure, I'm not excusing him, just saying I could see how it happened and I do think it probably could have been prevented.

If it did happen overnight though, that'd be stronger proof of it being just some sort of "mental snap". It's almost like the difference between first, second and third degree murder.

A snap decision made in the moment, third, still a terrible offense, but far less inherently insidious. The years of stacking up would play a part, but that would soon after be replaced by years of rationalizing- which would include fantasizing about this intensely fucked up shit no doubt. Premeditation is what differentiates an "accident" from a "plot" right.

In an ideal world if we all had guidance earlier, we'd all be spared from the the way our world conditions us. But conditioning is guidance in and of itself, spoken or unspoken. People don't know they're teaching things that will ultimately fuck you up internally. Some process and question the reason behind the thoughts they're having, some just run with it and build up a loop. Take a thought and run away with it, even a "last man in the world" fantasy, and it could go one of two ways. Unfortunately, he went the wrong way.

Exactly, that's why I don't think he was crazy, just brain-washed for years at a time. He posted that virus bull shit on PUAHate in 2013 according to the article above, theres no telling how long he was immersed in that culture/headspace or how long he was planning this for.

Again I'm not saying it makes what he did ok, just that I could see how it happened. If he had been on this forum for years instead of PUAHate, he would probably just be some hardcase newbie that eventually gets laid and goes on to live a semi-normal life.

Isnt 3rd degree murder more like some stupid parent leaving their baby in the car on a really hot day and the baby dies? Or is their a broader definition than that?

​First: killing with the intent to kill

Second: killing with the intent to do harm (i.e. shoot a person non-fatally, they eventually bleed to death)

Third: killing resulting from negligence or indifference

So yeah, you're right about the dead babies and dumbass parents. If, for example, you got drunk and got yourself into a fatal accident- killed someone. That'd also be third.

What I described before would likely still be treated as first degree I assume. Guess that's why that whole system is pretty dated now. But yeah, sliding scale-

Ok, I changed my mind.

According to this link, the guy was subscribed to popular PUA channels like rsdfreetour and squattincasanova. He did have access to awesome game material. MW, I know you're not a fan of squattincasanova compared to yourself, but he has some decent information on the channel.

Yeah, I guess this guy was just mentally deranged or something. No mentally sound person could have access to that quality of game material and still do what he did.

I knew about that before making this post. Fancy that 

So you still think you could have helped this guy?

Of course. I wish he'd come to me 

Manwhore's a  confident guy, and he's really good at what he does- prob one of the best out there, so I'd be surprised if he didn't think he could have helped him..

That being said, nothing was going to help this guy. 

But it doesn't work like that.... It doesn't work like that, because these "people" aren't human. 

Every pooah in the world right now, better be telling his clients that this kid could have been saved by him or his company... it's just a fact. If you're not saying that, or asking it, or at the least, putting the question out there, you're not confident in your product. 

But I don't get how people seem to be missing some really really really clear facts in this case.

The dude straight up murdered multiple people, simply becuase he wasn't getting laid. This isn't a case of, "OH he needed some direction". This guy got frustrated, and his response to frustration wasn't to yell, it wasn't even to do a bunch of drugs, or drink.... hell, it wasn't even to kill an animal..... This guys response to frustration like that little thing that builds up inside of you that is tense and annoying, that when you feel it maybe you wanna scream or cry...... well this guy went on a shooting rampage, with hundreds of bullets because of the same frustration that we all go through. 

At the end of the day, this guy claimed that he was pissed off becuase of girls. He simply chose the most readily available frustration to him. 

But let's get one thing straight- if this kid was getting laid, he was going to find another excuse. If he was getting laid, then he was going to kill the girl that fucked him, because she didn't worship him. If the girl worshipped him, he was going to kill all the other men out there who looked at her funny.

My point is this:

Everyoen is looking at this really shitty house, and trying to figure out how it could have been saved. And we're all talking about puttin an extra coat of paint on the bad-boy, and maybe someone would have looked at the place. Hell, maybe somebody would have moved in..

But what we're not seeing or paying attnetion to is the structure. Sure, someone may have moved in, fuck it- maybe they move in and even have every intention of doing a full-on rebuild of the house to flip-it down the line.... But the issue here is that the foundation... the wood the house is built on is rotted. It's filled with termite holes, and completely ruined. Despite their best intentions, there is no way whoever moved in could have done anything. 

Sure, maybe at one point there was actual, solid wood that made up the foundation at one point..... but point was so long ago, that it's pointless to even think about. 

This isn't a matter of sitting down over skype with a kid for 30 minutes or an hour, a couple times a month, and getting him laid. Or taking him out to some bars and getting him to talk to girls for 3-4 days ina  row..

This guy was a psychopath, and fucking women was not going to save him, or change him.

Probably one of the best out there? Pff. No one comes close dude. I'm only saying this because there are huge gaps that almost all pickup companies aren't filling. Elliot Rodger slipping thru the cracks the way he did is a typical example. 

Access to good material doesn't always mean a person accepts it. Still a choice.

No such thing as a lost cause. Dude.

But I'd make a slight change to your metaphor for the house there.

Learning this shit isn't a means of slapping a coat of paint on the badboy- I think you'd agree. It's more a means of rebuilding from the ground up.

I do however agree with the fact that someone who's caged in that sort of mindset will always find another excuse. No, fucking women wouldn't have saved him, but if that's what it took to give him a different perspective. An opportunity at taking on a different way of thinking. The opportunity to make the change has to come first. There's a door to every cage, and you sure as hell know it works as both entrance and exit.

Yeah, the deed's done. Comdemned or not, the kid's done horrible things. It was his choice.

double

Ok potted there's one clear point that needs to be made that puts the idea that Elliot Rodger having killed passes some unnamed threshhold to where he is deemed unredeemable, on its head. Humans are VIOLENT animals. Territorial, survival driven, potentially ferocious creatures. Throughout human history death and killing have been a fact of life, have even been a part of the "Coming of Age" ritual that so many societies took part in until recently. So killing is not necessarily an indication of anything. You know what else? Many of all of our grandparents killed. Had to. You could have your circumstances changed and you would have to resort to killing to survive, potted. It's in you. Or at least it should be. I would kill to protect my family or friends. Now yes Elliot Rodger was a full narcissist. I can see that from his YouTube channel. It wasn't just a cry for help, it was also for attention. But there are plenty of narcissists who lead very productive lives and enjoy contributing to society. He was turned towards a path of destruction, that is all. 

double

double

Uh, I mean sure that's def. an interesting point of discussion, but yeah completely unrelated to anything I've said... Not sure if you were trying to respond to anything i'd written 

Anyway man, I appreciate the good convo here, but not much more to say on my end. 

Agree to disagree 

You missed my analagy. The person moving in would be the pickup instructor who is willing to legit go in and do a full-on re-construct. 

The point is that it's not possible. Dudes a psychopath, and the wood is damaged. Can't be salvaged. 

Editing your posts potted? 

Yes it's just ignorant to go with "the wood was rotted he was ruined from the start." That sort of thing justifies racism, homophobia, the Holocaust. 

Appreciate you taking the time to read my posts man 

Oh come on whoreballs that was one teeny sentence out of the whole taco. And my point is that yes if he'd taken effective training he would not have gone down that route. Sure maybe he'd need to take up some martial arts to release his aggression, but doesn't everybody. It's obvious he was not. 5'9" 135lbs. The dude needed to take himself more seriously, get out of his own head and start doing things. 

I hear ya

Yep it was definitely that frustration.  Unless you have had training or mentoring, everyone will get that feeling at some point in their lives cuz we live in a consciousness that is so fucked.  He simply did not know how to deal with it.   I mean yes, killing people is as far as it gets.  But I have been places where If I was not entirely aware of tolle and other teachers of consciousness I don't know what I would have done.  When you feel that frustration and you can't find away to get it out of you and your mind is racing its a tricky, tricky place.  And if you don't have that awareness...I mean fuck.   There are people walking around with this negative attitude everywhere.   They just deal with in different ways.  SAME cause for it all.  Emotional Tension.

Something I posted on a pua Facebook group: You guys got to understand something VERY important.. sexual scarcity and frustration CREATES psychological and physiological problems. It's the CAUSE not just a symptom. It's part of our biology to reproduce, to matter and be of meaning to the opposite sex.

Yes people generally go down one of two paths. Their frustrations and lack of personal power either turn inwards and they punish themselves, e.g. depression, suicide, etc. Or it projects outwards, e.g. manipulating/abusing others, or even murder such as this case. 

You guys said he was PUAhate?...

Do you think the community GAVE him the hatred for women, I could be wrong but that PUAhate site seems to be a bunch of fuckers that initiallly tried pickup...failed...and starting attacking the concept of "game". 

I'm sure MW could have helped him, cuz he's just kinda amazing at what he does, but without personal trainging dude woulda be worse off with pickup material. 

It's impossible to know if be could have been helped. It was his responsibility to get help if he needs it and figure shit out. In the end he was a butthurt coward and I'm glad he got put down. Sad.

It's possible that he can at least cultivate the mindsets to be more resilient with rejection and this rampage might have been prevented.

Read about this pretty late, just today. Just sucks that other people have to suffer because of a pariah like this kid. I understand social conditioning and how powerful it is but HOLY SHIT, how anyone can subscribe to the ridiculous rhetoric at puahate and actually act on it in a violent manner deserved to die. Natural selection strikes again, sucks his mind was so mentally weak that he felt that need to ruin other peoples lives for his shortcomings. I think the question about him being able to be helped is pretty moot. No one will ever know however, I do think that there are certain positive influences, people, and forces on this earth that can turn anyone's life around at any given point but this kid never had that opportunity.

I was thinking about this, and I actually changed my mind. 

I think he probably could have been helped. Obviously, there's no way to know for sure either way, but yeah he snapped, and all of this could have been prevented if he got laid, worked out, meditated

More importantly though- He needed to understand his own agency more. He needed to understand that he actually mattered, and that the things he said and did had/have real impact on the world.

He didn't see any of that in himself, and it kidna sucks. 

But going back to what Jack said at one poitn- it was his responsibility to get help, and he didn't. It was his responsibility to change, and he didn't. 

Manwhore mentioned that there are plenty of narcissists who lead perfectly productive lives... and I agree, but for them, it takes constant effort. It isn't easy... And this guy wanted the easy way out. Again, given enough time, this guy probably could have been saved, but it would havve taken a lot

Parents r blaming the NRA. We live in such a backwards world

Parents r blaming the NRA. We live in such a backwards world

Parents r blaming the NRA. We live in such a backwards world

Parents r blaming the NRA. We live in such a backwards world

Parents r blaming the NRA. We live in such a backwards world