Spirituality Discussion Thread

Your ego will identify with anything that makes you appear superior to other people or gets you attention from other people. So its usually for one of those reasons.

Well I think in that text message thread it came accross as I was creating an ego out of it. 

But strangely enough, when I was saying it, I didn't feel identified wiht my mind at all. 

I wasn't trying to show her wrong or feel morally superior in any way. 

I was simply explaining the situation to her. 

But in retrospect, I realize that it served no purpose. And I realize that it's not the way to go about doing things. 

Ultimately, I think what was happening was that I was so engaged in Tolle's teachings, that I began to break down other people's behavior, instead of letting them be and not instill stuff onto them 

Resources:

Eckhart Tolle: 

Practicing the Power of Now
A New Earth
The Power of Now
Stillness Speaks

Jed Mckenna:

Spiritual Enlightenment Trilogy -- The first one seems to fuck people up.  The second one is challenging to make it through and I'm not sure its worth the read, but the third one--Spiritual Warfare--nails it and moves in a positive direction.  McKenna tackles head on what enlightenment isn't, and then explores what it actually is.  Spiritual Warfare basically says, "Ok so now you know what enlightenment is, you really don't want it, instead you're seeking "Human Adulthood."  And he goes on to outline what that entails. 

Theory of Everything -- very high-level book that came out after the trilogy, and spells out his beliefs/arguments on the nature of the universe and consciousness in a clear, bare bones fashion, but in doing so it lacks some of the depth and nuance of the third Trology book. 
          
Michael Brown: 

The Presence Process -- this book provides a 10 Week process for training yourself to be present.  It basically makes you unearth and then properly deal with old emotional wounds and unhelpful emotions that give rise to negative thoughts and behaviors.  Its intense while simultaneously being easy if you don't resist. 

Peter Ralston:

The Book of Not Knowing:  Exploring the True Nature of Self, Mind, and Consciousness -- This book is by far and away the most comprehensive of all of them.  Almost too much so.  I put it down and stopped reading about 40% of the way through because it wasn't teaching me anything powerful that I didn't already know.  Maybe I should pick it up again..

Osho:  Tyler Durden from RSD recommended him, and I watched some of his youtube vids, but maybe I wasn't cool enough to get it.  Either way, in real life he lived like a king after getting kicked out of India, got lots of money from donors, and banged spiritual groupies. 
I have two of his books that I believe are collections of quotes and lectures, but haven't read them.  One is called The Mind, and the other Emotions. 

David Deida:

Instant Enlightenment  He's the sex guru.  I like his style. 

I used to do a similar thing but with my mum lol. Id try to point out her blindspots and where her ego was holding her back. I found it crazy the way she would rationalize and justify all her behaviour and it used to make me really angry. She just couldnt be honest with herself.

After a while I realised that this commincation style just doesnt work with alot of people and sometimes the only way you can help is to lead by example and hope that something eventually clicks for them.

Very true, and very good points. 

I mostly do this in other areas of my life. Fitness especially. I won't instill that shit on anyone or call them out for doing things wrong. I know from experience, only when there is a true openess, shall I share with them my thoughts.  

So I guess it's taken time for me to make the same realization with the Tolle stuff.

Pretty sure every single person who's critiqued you telling people about Tolle has not been a part of my program. Can you imagine if I had the same opinion on it? 

Sure you can be a bit subtler about it, but I would definitely keep introducing it to people. 

hahah yah! 

I share it quite a bit actually. People that I have a lot of leverage with, I will get them to buy the audio and listen to the first hour then talk to me. They always love it. 

I guess I've been making a new habit of explaining people's ego created mistakes when they've crossed the line 10 times lol. I figured it's better they know then not know. That's precisely what I did with that girl and yes it came off harsh, but fuck it lol. I'm not trying to keep fucking her and she needs to see that she created oneitis with me and it wasn't genuine. 

Patrick,  I'm concerned you're clinging to an "enlightened" identity, to me you're coming across a bit dickish about it. Recommend the Tolle, sure. Maybe ease up on the preaching.

Im definitely in favour of introducing people to life changing shit like Tolle, Its just that theres a lot of different ways you can go about doing it. I really liked what you said in the other thread about sitting down with your mum to watch his videos. Ive tried to get my mum to read his books but she wasnt interested. 

if not for your ego, why does she need to see anything?

True, there was ego involvement 

In the near future I will be writing about the relevant points and giving a summary of the related works I've read or listened to.  I would appreciate it very much if everyone else would do the same.  We obviously have some sharp guys on this forum who have set foot on the spiritual journey and I very much want to know what you've learned and experienced.  I'm happy to post my own thoughts with the hope that someone will get something from it, but I would really love to hear about other peoples' experiences with spirituality and consciousness.

Sure, anyone want to talk about their experiences with presence?

Yeah.  I can handle any fucked up situation life can throw at me, with ease.  I stay Present always and life opens up opportunities for me.  People enjoy my company everywhere I go, I never experience a negative person anymore, ever.  Nothing can affect me if I deem it holds no benefit to me.

That's incredible.  Anything you want to share about the process that got you where you are today would be much appreciated.  I know that you've written about gratitude, and I know that's something Tony Robbins holds high. 

When I was really into Tolle, my girlfriend at the time had a lot of inner anguish and issues with her past. Specifically, her family.

I didn't sit her down and try to circumnavigate these abstract concepts to her and have a discussion. I simply said, "Hey, I just got done reading this book. You should too, it was amazing. Specifically read chapter 4 (whatever pain body is) I think it would really apply and help you right now."

Then, after introducing someone to Tolle's work you can have a much better discussion because they have grasped the ideas and can hold up a genuine, constructive conversation.

I almost feel a bit egotistical sharing this story, but here goes...

I haven't worked a "job" for the last  2 years and I recently decided that, it would be wise to get a job last month, in addition to my business so I'd have the resources to do a bunch of things that I want to do. So it was kindof a shock to me to re-enter the workplace. There was this "atmosphere" of tension, negativity and gossip in the place that was almost tangible. I was like, "HOLY FUCK. This is what people live in every day!"

There is one woman there who is "The Regulation Nazi." The other employees HATE her. My first day she was all over me, telling me to do this and that. For example, I was on lunch and was standing outside of the breakroom eating my lunch and socializing and she came up to me and said, "The breakroom is right there. Use it." I was like, "Oh thanks! I just didn't want people to think I was Mr. Depressed sitting in there all by myself."  So every time she projected that negative "bossypants" thing at me, I'd just smile and thank her. Sometimes she'd tell me to do stuff and the other employees would come up and say, "Dude, that's not your job. You can tell her to shove it, it's her job." I would say that I'm there anyways and it needs to get done, I don't care who's job it is. SHE DOES NOT FUCK WITH ME ANYMORE... SUPER PLEASANT AT ALL TIMES.

At first the other employess would try to project their negative energy (usually gossip) at me, I'd give them my full attention but I wouldn't return it. It ends with me.

I am absolutely SHOCKED at the the power of presence having such an effect on a group of people. (I've seen it in smaller scales, over shorter periods of time) But the atmosphere of the place has completely changed and become so much more positive and free of conflict.

ALSO, I've noticed that my health has vastly improved. I haven't caught the flu or cold for over a year now :))

This is really fucking cool dude. Good job. Those toxic situations are easy to participate in if you're not present.

You watched True Detective right? He quits and calls out everyone in his workplace for being sheep basically. Great scene.

^^YES! Rust is totally on his own two feet. One of my favorite scenes is where they're at that religious convention thing and he's just slicing the whole situation up, then Marty tries to call him out, and he goes, "...Sounds like speeding toward a stoplight."

@Archangel

Im gald you brought this up cause recently (past month or two) I've been going on a internet spirituality information searching spree haha.

Just like when I got introduced to game my curiosity just won't go away and i have to watch every single youtube video or google anything related to it possible.

FIrst I started listening to Tolle again to try to get out of my rage i was putting myself in after i got kicked out of that frat because of a white knight. 

I started watching Massiah Complex cause tyler recomended it and i saw Russel Brand kept coming up on this forum. The guy is super entertaining and by just watching him you can learn how to be more funny, congruent, and carefree. Then i started noticing all the spirituality aspects he kept bringing up and how mainstream media disconnects us from our natural nature to be happy and positive and support one another.

After this i went on a fucking spree! Started watching videos on some other people Tyler recommended like John Maxwell. Then i got way to deep into it and watched some videos from speakers who claim to be hybrid alien/humans and even people saying they live in the 5th dimension or some shit like that. FInally i came full circle and started listening to Alan Watts. He's like Tolle except he discuss icons and religions the same way that Russel Brand does. But more in depth and in a story like fashion.

Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts are fucking awsome and i think everyone can learn alot from them in regards to spirituality.

After this video watching spree i basically learned that spirituality and self-development have extreme similarities in the principlas that apply. All are about focusing on yourself and becoming your best self to help improve poeple and the situations around you in the way you want.

Basically what i got from the whole thing is two main things that self development and spirituality teachers hammer on. 

1. You have to take action. If you don't take action by doing things that you enjoy or better yourself then it's kinda like your wasting your life. Spiritual people say that this is how you become closer to god, self development says that this is the true way to get better and learn.

2. Theres no such thing as a good or bad experience. Anything can be negative or positive the way you interpret it. 

Bad experience = you learn

Good experience = you feel happy and probably still learn something

Summary: In reality having any sort of experience is positive regardless of your emotions towards it because experience = knowledge and acquiring more knowledge is never a negative thing.

I also realized not to focus on if these spirituality teachers are accurate about their depicitions of what God is. All that really matters is their intention to help people better their lives and that they give practical and helpful advice that works.

Also a major one we all know about is being positive. As in the case of Infinity you definately handled that situation by "killing them with kindness".

I think the reason for this is because it takes alot of energy to be a negative person. Negativity drains you and being positive is much more natural and actually helps build momentum to be even more positive. 

I like how Infinity didn't fuel the situation with any sort of negative response whatsoever. He showed them by example that it's just way more easy to have a postive work environment. Also how their negativity served no purpose and had no affect on his internal beliefs.

Also a great example of being in tune with your surroundings and having empathy towards people. At the same not socially pinging off of them to look how to react.

@TrickAssMark

 Homie im in the same situation with my mom. Even when i point out her ego in a kind way, all it does is make it worse. That ego also makes here create problems out of nothing. To me the ego almost makes her seem like a masculinized female (if that makes any sense). Let me know if you make any progress, i'll definately need to get better with the leading by example approach.

This is a great thread. I've meditating now for 20 minutes a day for 3 months straight and it is unbelievable the change of perception you have on the world. This might sound weird but you start really using your eyes and seeing things that you are like, holy shit was that there before. In addition you have this amazing present energy and it feels like it is almost addictive to other people, like people look at you with this envious 'holy shit, what does he have' look. But the best part of it is how you feel, completing happy in every situation, not to mention the non dependence on external stimulation. I could talk for ages about this, but it seriously has added a new dimension to my life

http://manwhore.org/forum/content/success-mindset

I apologize I will provide a definitive answer to all this spirituality stuff.  Just have to write an article to convince the egos that it is the definitive answer and avoid a lot of self sabotage

^^^ speaking of coming across preachy and dickish.. Ahem.. Sorry homey, the only ego problem I should be concerned with right now is my own

Continue reading it, The Book of not Knowing is such a gem that truly unfolds in the later stages, I know it can be very repetitive at times but it was my most rewarding read when I put it down last year. Truly inspiring shit! Read his other book Zen Body Being as well and helped me tremendously forging the mind-body connection for my ninjutsu practice. He is pretty good at tai chi too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpce_-nmmp0

I like Osho as well, but a lot of times he has some wacky 70's hippie shit in there, from what I have read Emotions:Freedom from Anger, Jealousy and Fear is pretty good and I can recommend Intuition as well. 

I'll have to give it another shot.

Below I am posting something that I wrote over a year ago about the Presence Process, and I'm going to post it here in its unedited form.  Before that though, is a section from the book The Presence Process that provides background information on what I'm talking about (in italics):

Whenever anything happens that upsets us emotionally, whether it appears as an event or as another person’s behavior, we are experiencing a reflection of our past.

Yeah, I just bought the audiobook to the presence process.  I have gotten through the first 2 hours and I can tell it is going to be right on. 

@Archangel: Yes, I know what you are going through mang.  

I'll just put my experience/2 cents in here because hopefully it is useful to some people. 

I did MW coaching about a year and a half ago.   I was feeling really crappy about myself.  I lived with a buddy who was abusive to say the least, I watched girl after girl fall through my hands (not getting laid with ANY consistency and so much confusion as to why), and the sport I was playing in school was no longer giving me any interest.  

So I hit up MW and within two months I had 4 lays and was picking up steam.  I was going out and pushing through the resistance of talking to girls and getting so many good reactions.  I really felt weak though because I could have been hitting up SO many more women.  That sense of weakness was growing in me....

MW also introduced Tolle into my life, and after a month of listening I thought that I "had it all figured out" lol (future implied).   Anyway, it twas not the case.

So eventually that sense of weakness hit a point where I snapped.  There is the analogy of the guy who has all these things bothering him and many emotionally dissatisfying life choices but when his cat dies he flips out then blames it all on the cat dying.

I did something similar.

I put all my marbles into getting laid so that I would feel better about myself.  And it worked; until I realized it was not working anymore.  Then I ran like HELL.  But  you really can run your whole life and not go anywhere, its true, most people do it for their whole lives.   We cannot escape oursevles.   

So I went on a quest and have read SO much on spirituality.  But I realize, and this is cliche but hey, truly, truly, NO reading will ever get you there.  It must be applied to your life.   I was listening to Tolle, but I was not truly applying it.  All spirituality points to the two basic truths: Go within and Know thyself.  Its pretty basic.  No dogma, no pizazz, no special fix it buttons. 

Which leads to my final point here, is Emotional Intelligence.  This is an absolute trust.  It is not so much "being in control of your emotions" it is more being aware of them and not judging them, which btw, controls them...I just flat out did not know that I had emotions.  Well I knew that I felt things, but I had no idea what was going on.  And to an extent I still don't.  However, being an emotionally advanced person means that you are willing to feel pain.

And MW discussed this in the discussion over gvoice.  He said something along the lines that when you are present, the pain you feel, is really, no big deal.  And that is exactly the point....We must come to see that our pain is not who we are, but a part of us that needs love....It is nothing to think about, just to love...

Emotional Unconciousness is ultimately the biggest problem this world has.  And one must be a true warrior to be present and concious of their pain, especially when everyone is running like hell around them to avoid it.

And I did for about a year but I am coming around now.  

There is all this talk of "don't use girls for validation, etc" but really, dont use ANYTHING for validation.  Mine was girls....but for others its cars, muscles, "how concious you are", your shoes, etc....

And then there is always this, If you asked yourself, seriously from a deep place, would any of the things stressing you out bother you if you had a day to live.  The answer is no, but then you have to watch your thoughts because they will still insist they do, lol.  So lets all just die before we die....MW would be out of a job then though ;) so would a lot of people... ;)

Beargrizz one thing you must not be remembering right now, a lot of the other work we did, was helping you cleanse your life of super unhealthy relationships you had with people. Parasitic. Your buddy you grew up with that you basically followed to college, became his roommate, his teammate, and his punching bag. That was super unhealthy. Then your other buddy, who's pretty much a criminal in how he treats people. So we worked on setting boundaries and when those people couldn't stick to them we removed them from the equation. Now I realized this would create a vacuum in your life, but I thought surely we'd be able to work through that. But everything is an addiction. Pain is an addiction. Discomfort, sadness, being without boundaries, having people tell you what to do, being happy, being fulfilled. Success is an addiction, it's a habit. So what happened is you stuck to it and kept looking for reasons to stay down. That was your big problem mang. That addiction. You need new ones, you need to start realizing what's even possible, and to start building the mental connections to create that in your life. This is very similar to how I turned myself into an entrepreneur (at least a decent one I could be better for sure). I didn't even KNOW what an entrepreneur was at first. I was raised practically in poverty. I had zero inclination I had to build it into myself. You have to do the same. You have to start identifying good emotions and start identifying with them. Start seeing how they make you relate to your every day life in new/different ways. Start seeing things from a "happy" perspective. Not from the perspective of "I'm looking for my next emotional bashing. Oh no one's giving it to me? Ok guess I have to give it to myself then." It's all mental programming. Reprogram yourself to be happy and fulfilled and exultant in the things you choose to do. 

Thx MW,

Yeah man, I falied to mention that......  I had gotten myself addicted to staying below the levels of happiness/sucess I knew that I could be at.   And when the barriers were removed, who was there to keep it that way? Me!.  Yes, we did a lot of excellent work and I learned a ton I just let my negative emotions take home the win.  Not any more though. 

Word brother.

Thanks for phoning in caller!

MW this is super helpful. I grew up around very strict religious people and even when I broke away I was still surrounded by that stuff. Ever since I moved out of my parents place and got myself away for the most part from that and took in more normal people into my life my mind has exploded. lol i really relate to where you said you didnt even know whats possible. take the entrepernuer thing. i started doing that a few months ago but never really REALIZED that it is actually possible. now Im starting to see the connections and move towards them. but its insane, i could relate it to other stuff in my life but this one right now is the most.. shocking. i was literally like the hobo tyler jokes about in one of his free tours. "changeeee give me the changgeee.." "i could not give you the change and teach you how to make a million dollars" "the changgeeee" lol that was me. literally. and once i broke free from the mental constraints and realized more is possible. this has excitied me and motivated me so much the past two weeks or so. i dont really have time for stupid thoughts or bullshit when im thinking about things that excite me.

as mw told me if your not growing your dying. well fuck that is so damn true.